We’ve Got A Bigger Problem Now…

“This war’s a Mother Fucker, how many sons will we kill today?”

Recently, I involved myself in a “debate” with another participant of the Blogswarm Against Theocracy. The debate centered on this person’s claim that some of the posts in the BAT were “Offensive” to Christians.

Originally, I planned on not commenting any further because I didn’t want to give this person more attention, which I’m convinced is part of their motive, and because I wanted it to go away. However, I decided that’s very unlike me, and it’s not going away whether I respond or not.

I’m not going to explain myself nor am I going to make any excuses. I said what I wanted to say, and I felt it was something that needed to be said.

There seems to be a misconception among many people that no one has the right to “Offend us.” If someone says something we find “Offensive” then we demand retribution and/or reparation.

It’s nice to dream of a world where everyone says the right thing, and we all skip down the streets singing “I love you, you love me.” (Actually that sounds like a fucking nightmare).

Utopia is a fantasy, and if people thought about it for longer than a minute they’d realize they really don’t want Utopia. Humanity ceases to exist in Utopia.

The only way to bring Utopia into existence is to stifle all of humanity: thought, art, music, literature, science, virtually every human behavior must be controlled.

The idea of a “Perfect” or Utopian society implies a society that rests on a razor’s edge, and even the slightest tremor threatens to bring it toppling down.

What if we eliminated everything we find “Offensive” in the world. What the fuck is left? Every person involved in BAT would have to censor their blogs. Personally, I’d have to delete half of my posts, at least. But it’s not just me or the “blunt” people or the people who “don’t hold back.” We all write posts “Offensive” to someone somewhere and those must be censored as well. It’s completely subjective, and it’s fucking Fascist.

No one is guaranteed the right to go through life without being offended, and anyone who expects such a thing needs to grow a pair. Straight outta Fuckin’ Compton!

Utopia, “Perfection”, is anti-thetical to our very nature. We are flawed, imperfect, moronic, selfish, lazy, rude, arrogant and we have a propensity to smell bad. (Yes, I’m talking about the French). We are incapable of perfection, and it is our flaws that make us human. Suffering is what forces us to change and to grow.

What does art look like in Shangri-La for instance?

And what about Prose?

“I found another pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, and then Halle Berry and I went for a drive in my Platinum Plated Rolls Royce. Life is so great I think I might fucking shoot myself.”

Sure there are people who severely piss me off, and they know who they are. That’s why I write. This is my vent, my release and I enjoy it. I deal with those who “Offend” me on my own, and never would I ask that they be silenced or censored. (They give me something to write about, such as now). However, this is exactly what happened with BAT whether the person acknowledges it or not. They even threatened to take their ball and go home.

When I look at our “Blogroll”, there’s not one person who’s the same as the others. (Well, except for the few “wingnuts” we have). This is the advantage “Liberals” (And I use this word very loosely) have over La Cosa Bushstra. But it’s rarely used as an advantage.

The Republican Party, on the otherhand, is about as diverse as a glass of milk. No matter what you add to change its color or taste it still comes from a cow’s titty.

Of course, there are advantages being homogeneous.

Hate radio is a great example. The Right can easily file their message into a very fine point and reach a large audience because their base, for the most part, is uniform. (If you’ve read one “Conservative” Blog you’ve read them all). And over the past 25 years or so the Right has whipped its base into a rabid, ill-informed mob bent on undoing centuries of human progress. But there are disadvantages to uniformity as well.

The Right is very adept at making itself appear larger than it really is. Cons know they lack universal appeal so they create the illusion they are the “Majority”(Majority of the Fools) trying to channel the Lemming lurking within us all.

The truth however, is that the majority of Americans have no desire to live in the land “Little Jack Fundy” built. Nor do they support Republican “Scorch the Poor Poor; Save the Poor Rich” policies. President Bush’s popularity is at a historical nadir for good reason. Americans are fed up.

The Right forever teeters on the brink dependent on their big mouths and fear mongering to keep us from pushing them over the edge. But the edge is eroding, and the time is now for Americans, from all walks of life, to put the Party “Lincoln Logs Built” in its place; at the bottom of a dark, lonely bottomless pit.

But is that happening? Nope.

Why?

“Liberals” are waiting for the stars to align in such a way that all our hearts meld and beat as One. Unfortunately, they’ll wait forever and while they do Captain Nuculur and Nosferatu are busy dry fucking our Constitution, and date Raping Lady Liberty all over the planet.

This is a fucking war!

These people are dangerous. What don’t we get?

Instead of using diversity and the obvious advantage it gives them, Liberals turn it into a hindrance. “We need to respect everyone’s feelings.” It’s never going to fucking happen.

There are too many people within the Progressive Movement. Too many people with different agendas, varied reasons for participating etc. And let’s not forget many Republicans, Libertarians, and Moderates voted Democrat in 2006. They are every bit as pissed about this war and the uncompromising knob polishing of the Religious Right. But do you think a Libertarian is going to agree with a “Liberal” when the topic turns to Social Programs? Fuck no! Does that really matter at this point?

There are many historical examples that fly in the face of this “We have to all get along and respect one another.” What about WWII? You think Blacks enjoyed fighting alongside Racists? I’m going to say, No.

But do you think when the Nazis or Japanese came over the Hill they didn’t fight with all their might possibly even dying to save the Cracker?

What do people expect when you bring Religion into the mix? At what point in human history have the “Religious” even gotten along with one another, much less the Non-Religious?

I’m sorry some people got their feelings hurt during the Blogswarm. It’s unfortunate. And I’m not saying people have no right to be Offended. But let’s keep some fucking perspective.

Am I to believe that an adult did not take into account a “Blogswarm Against Theocracy” may have a post or two written by Atheists, and that maybe, just maybe, one of those Atheists might hate Christians? (Many Atheists are hostile toward Religion). Seriously? I find that impossible to believe. I think some people simply like to be “Offended” and search for ways to be “Offended.” (Like those “Liberals” who listen to Rush Limbaugh. What the fuck is wrong with those idiots?)

What happens next year? Do people think about what they’re going to write? Do they censor themselves out of the fear their posts may be labeled “Offensive?” Do they refuse to participate altogether?

As I said, I could easily go back over every single post from BAT and find something “Offensive” in them all.

Of course all people deserve respect, but the BIG PICTURE is more important right now. The nuances can be worked out after we rip our Government from the grip of Lunatics. But even then people will still be “Offensive”, people will still act like fools, and do/say things they shouldn’t (Yours truly) and anyone who expects otherwise is deluded.

Liberals spend as much time attacking one another as they do attacking Bush, completely ridiculous. It is not necessary to have a movement that is perfectly in sync, we all have one Monumental Goal bringing us together.

I just want to raise my daughter, make a few bucks, write, paint, get laid, drink a couple of beers and generally live like a human being (whatever that means for me).

When I look at the current GOP, I see a Party vehemently opposed to anything even resembling humanity. To quote Grandfather from “Little Big Man”:

“Do you see this fine thing? Do you admire the humanity of it? Because the human beings, my son, they believe everything is alive. Not only man and animals. But also water, earth, stone. And also the things from them… like that hair. The man from whom this hair came, he’s bald on the other side, because I now own his scalp! That is the way things are. But the white man, they believe EVERYTHING is dead. Stone, earth, animals. And people! Even their own people! If things keep trying to live, white man will rub them out. That is the difference.”

This is the Republican Party. This is the enemy we all face.

This is the priority.

(I love this song, it reminds me of being a young shit instead of being an “Older Shit.” Anyone who thinks Punk music is only 3 chords and a bunch of noise, never heard the Dead Kennedys)

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~ by fairlane on July 8, 2007.

20 Responses to “We’ve Got A Bigger Problem Now…”

  1. Nice essay, Fairlane. I think we need to be friends. Consider yourself blogrolled.

    Regards,

    Tengrain

  2. Thanks tengrain.

    I still expect some backlash, but I’m tough.

    I enjoy your blog as well, but I tried to add you earlier and it says your blog isn’t activated yet.

    Should I wait or use your old URL?

    Let me know because I definitely want to add you. We can always use friends.

  3. What irony, that the hypocrisy coming from the right, is always backed up by a hate/killing noises that they supposedly are against. Why don’t more see it?

    They have infiltrated the media as it dwindles down to only a precious few, and tamper with what’s spoken, so it appears that more people agree, but in reality, it is not so.

    Yet, quite a few sheeple continue to agree, or so we think.

    At least the ones making the money are believers, no doubt about that!

    Otherwise, well said! ; )

  4. I needed so much to read this today. I find myself not offended but disgusted with being told what I must think to be liberal. I cannot follow the liberal parade in step. I wonder off the reservation now and then regarding what I feel and believe. It’s so good to know that I am not alone.

    Like you I want a fair shake for everyone and I too believe there are people who seek to be offended so they can bitch and moan about it.

  5. Early on, I was in agreement with your article, but then you turned it into a right hate fest.

    C’mon, who’s being hypocritical here? You talk about the improtance of sheeple pulling their heads out of their asses and realizing everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and shouldn’t demand others to share it, then you go on and blast the “right” for all having the same opinion.

    WTF?!

    So most republicans think alike. That’s their choice. But what gets Republicans and conservatives riled up is when the left goes on and on and ultimately declares that people are free to have an opinion so long as it doesn’t clash with their own.

    Personally, I think you sound like a bunch of antisocial types. But that’s just my opinion.

  6. Saying people can have an opinion and agreeing with said opinion are two different things.

    You confuse the two, and because of this your reasoning is a dead end.

    Essentially you’re saying, “People have a right to an opinion, therefore you cannot criticize them for having an opinion because that means you’re saying they can’t have an opinion.”

    Nope.

    Logically that makes no sense whatsoever. I can criticize ignorant opinions all day long because I too have the right to an Opinion.

    It’s one thing to have a thought or a belief, but when those beliefs are translated into action then the stakes change, and we have every right to try and stop those actions. In fact, it is our duty to do so.

    I notice you had no problem when I criticized Liberals only when I criticized Cons did I become “anti-social.”

    Obviously you have no understanding of what “anti-social” actually means. I guess it sounded good.

    You support criminals sir, and because of that anything you say is questionable at best, as your judgment is obviously flawed. (Have you ever heard me praising a Democrat? Nope).

    And if you don’t see the danger in everyone thinking the same maybe you need to think a little deeper.

    When everyone thinks the same, what happens if they are wrong?

    “You turned it into a right hate fest.”

    I dislike the Right TR, by now you should understand that and either accept it or stop coming over here. Either way my “opinion” will not change until the Right changes, which does not appear likely or even possible.

    I have a tenuous agreement with the Left at this point. Their fixation with Utopia gravely concerns me. But the Right is a more relevant and real threat.

    My loyalties are with myself, my daughter, my family and my friends. I do not care about Party Politics, but I’m no fence straddler either. I am very definitive in my “opinions”, and in my “opinion” the Right Wing is a danger to everyone on this planet.

  7. ‘Tis a fine post ye’ve made, fairlane! As usual. I, for one, will not let any consideration of what’s-hi-name’s vapid complaints deter me when next I post about theocracy. In fact, I daresay the opposite may hold true. We’ll find out when I write it, won’t we?

    And, also directed at pissed off patricia, doesn’t liberalism, by it’s very nature, negate the idea of a rez? Liberals are open-minded, and a group of open-minded people is going to have as many opions and outlooks as it does members.

    As the great Will Rogers said, “I belong to no organized party, I’m a Democrat!”

  8. “You confuse the two, and because of this your reasoning is a dead end. ”

    When will the Wizard give you a brain?

    My argument in this thread is that the left gets mad at the right for condemning the left’s opinion different from the right, then turns around and condemns the right for being different from the left.

    That’d be like me telling vegetarians their idiots for not respecting my love of meat, and vegetarians then responding that I’m an idiot for not respecting their love of trees. It’s hypocrisy.

    If you think that republicans/the right are wrong for not respectign your right to think differently, then you must also respect the right’s right to think different from you.

    And yes, many on the right commit the same hypocrisy.

    And to clarify, I dont’ like ANY robot that chants out the party line rather than think for themselves. Be they Gore or McCain followers.

    What happens when everyone thinks the same and they’re wrong? Why, that’s called straight-ticket voting.

    And what criminals do I support? See, that’s you injecting your opinion the war in Iraq is wrong. Not only are you against the war, but you refuse to respect the right I and others have to think the war is right, and neccessary.

    Here’s a thought, attack the idea- not the person. Of course, that’s hard to do in a forum like this, as it sure comes across as attacking the person.

    As for antisocial- I think you’ve made it clear that you are.

    “This is the Republican Party. This is the enemy we all face.”

    That sounds a lot like the KKK talking about blacks. I think liberals are idiots, but I at least recognize them as my countrymen.

  9. “And what criminals do I support?”

    No bid contracts to Cheney’s former company Halliburton. Halliburton then “loses”, “misplaces” billions of dollars, but continues to receive no bid contracts.

    Ignored warnings during Hurricane Katrina that levees were in danger of failing, and then did nothing after Katrina hit. To this day, much of New Orleans is in ruins.

    The Administration, Cheney most likely, “outed” a Covert CIA agent. And then Commuted sentence of man who Obstructed the Investigation.

    Violated Constitution with “Faith Based Initiative Program”. Used Program to give over 1 million dollars to an Organization run by Pat Robertson who donates millions to Reps. (There are many other problems with this program, and if you are interested in the truth you can easily look it up, don’t take my word).

    Fired Federal Prosecutors based on their “party loyalty” in order to turn Prosecutor’s Office into a puppet for the Administration and to potentially influence elections (This is illegal by the way). Currently refusing to cooperate with Investigation.

    Violated Constitution by using a Religious “Litmus Test” to gauge potential Supreme Court nominees.

    Manipulated evidence and the public in order to build support for the war.

    1) Outed CIA agent wife of Joe Wilson who contradicted their claims about Iraq’s nuclear program.
    2) Presented documents to U.N. the I.A.E.A. called “obvious forgeries.”
    3) ignored any and all critics, including those within Intelligence, of their war plans. Questioned “Patriotism” and “Loyalty” of said critics to further their propaganda
    4) Time and time again linked Saddam not only to Bin Laden, but to attacks on 9/11 even though no such links existed.

    I could go on and on and on, but at this point it’s redundant, and anyone who still believes this war is legit is obviously beyond reason.

    “That sounds a lot like the KKK talking about blacks.”

    Nope. Again this shows your lack of understanding. Hatred of blacks by groups such as the KKK is completely irrational. My dislike of the Right is very rational.

    “I think liberals are idiots”

    This is contradicts your previous claim where you said this;

    “That’d be like me telling vegetarians their idiots for not respecting my love of meat, and vegetarians then responding that I’m an idiot for not respecting their love of trees. It’s hypocrisy.”

    You seem confused.

    There is nothing that says I must “respect” your ideas. You have the “right” to think/believe whatever you wish, but I do not have to respect what you think/believe.

    Following your “logic” the world had no right to act against the Nazis, after all they had a right to think/believe whatever they wished, and by not respecting that right we were being “hypocrites.”

    Your party wants to inject religion into government, which violates the Constitution, and the wishes of our Forefathers. If you doubt this read the Federalist Papers, read about the Constitutional Convention, read the Constitution, read the writings of the men who participated.

    The issue of religion came up time and time again. It was left out of the Constitution intentionally. The Right wants us to believe that the Framers, who debated and re-debated these issues over and over, suddenly had a “brain fart” and accidentally left out their wishes for America to be a “Christian Nation.”

    Your party wants to put discrimination into the Constitution, “The Gay Marriage Amendment.”

    Your party wants to teach non-sense, Creationism, as Science.

    Your party believes Corporations are more beneficial to humanity than humans.

    History will prove you wrong TR. I am 100% certain of this.

    This Administration will go down as one of the worst, if not the worst, in History. Every thing they touch turns to shit.

    Did you read the paper this morning? If so you read that the “Surge” has not changed anything. The “War on Terror” in Iraq is an abject failure. Hundreds of thousands of people dead for nothing, billions upon billions of dollars wasted for nothing. All because of one man’s ego and his inability to admit mistakes. (That is “anti-social”).

    But he’s a drunk and that’s what drunks do. Bush is the typical addict, a “dry drunk” as they say.

    You are the one who defends him and that makes you every bit as culpable.

  10. Dang, this is getting longwinded, but I’ll keep playing…

    ME: “And what criminals do I support?”
    YOU: No bid contracts to Cheney’s former company Halliburton. etc. etc. etc.

    Webster’s defines “criminal” as “relating to, involving, or being a crime”. Crime is then defined as “an act or the commission of an act that is forbidden or the omission of a duty that is commanded by a public law and that makes the offender liable to punishment by that law”.

    If you’re going to call the President and his administration criminal, then you have to use the same standards fo Judgement for all politicians, and then they’re pretty much ALL criminals. If you’re going to be fair.

    But then you go and muddy the criminality argument with this statement:

    YOU: “I could go on and on and on, but at this point it’s redundant, and anyone who still believes this war is legit is obviously beyond reason.”

    So, just because you don’t think the war is legit, Bush is a criminal? Then Clinton’s a criminal. And Churchill, and just abotu any world leader that sends forces into another country.

    I’ve said it before, maybe not here, the President was given inaccurate information but good has come of the war. Lots of Iraqis no longer be oppressed, raped and stolen from by the mass-murdering Saddam Hussein will agree. Others won’t.

    Then you went on with more of your right-hate-clouded vision…

    YOU: “Following your “logic” the world had no right to act against the Nazis, after all they had a right to think/believe whatever they wished, and by not respecting that right we were being “hypocrites.””

    I don’t get that jump. Clearly, I’m for toppling genocidal governments that intentionally slaughter innocents. I’m anti-nazi, anti-socialist (in case you missed that nazis were socialists) and anti-communist. I’d just as soon nuke the lot of them pray for their souls afterward.

    But lets press on…

    ME: “That sounds a lot like the KKK talking about blacks.”
    YOU: “Nope. Again this shows your lack of understanding. Hatred of blacks by groups such as the KKK is completely irrational. My dislike of the Right is very rational.”

    Well… okay, if you think it’s rational. Like I said, hard to tell with a forum and not in person. But you sure sound like you have an irrational hatred of anything “right” or republican. Then again, I’ve been accused of opposing GlobalWarming solely because I dislike Algore. I guess I can see how it might come across that way, but actually, I oppose the global warming farce because, well, it seems like a complete farce. Now if Gore was just against air pollution because it causes problems at ground level, I’d have to give him props for that. Kind of like how I think Christopher 2X is a complete idiot, but I do acknowledge he’s no slacker. The guy gets out there and works it. Gotta admire his work ethic if nothing else. Liek Jehovah’s Witnesses- I think they’re dolts, but I always compliment them when they come to my door for not being lazy and really getting out there and preaching what they practice.

    ME: “I think liberals are idiots” Well, I do. And by liberal, I mean folks who proudly declare themselves liberals. Not folks who are branded liberal. I have plenty of friends in the democrat party who are far from liberal, and I don’t think they’re idiots.

    You then accused me of being confused

    YOU: “There is nothing that says I must “respect” your ideas. You have the “right” to think/believe whatever you wish, but I do not have to respect what you think/believe.

    Okay. I agree with you there, but you missed my point. To condemn republicans for not respecting your opinion: Okay. But then to disrespect republicans’ opinion and claiming they have no basis for then condemning your lack of respect for their opinion: hypocritical. A double standard. What gives you liberals the right to question but not be questioned?

    YOU: ” Your party wants to inject religion into government, which violates the Constitution, and the wishes of our Forefathers.”

    I gotta disagree. My interpretation of the Constitution is that the Founding Fathers intended for us to be a god fearing nation but respected that each person is free to worship God in the way they want and not be castrated by a bunch of crazy spaniards for “blaspehmy”. IE, it’s the job of government to provide a safe place for folks to live Christian lives, as they interpret how to be Christian.

    I don’t know about my party injecting religion into government, but if they start passing laws about how I worship God, I’ll join right in with you in looking for a new land to live in.

    YOU: ” Your party wants to put discrimination into the Constitution, “The Gay Marriage Amendment.”

    And that is totally logical, from my view. If government id prohibited from dictating the how or why of Christianity, and since marriage is an invention of religion, then the government should not be allowed to “allow” gay marriage. Barring it is theonly way to keep rules-benders from trying to officially endorse it. Makes surely as much sense as Clinton warping the Manual for Courts Martial and the Uniform Code of Military Justice prohibitions against rump-humping with his “Don’t ask, don’t tell” policy.

    YOU: “Your party wants to teach non-sense, Creationism, as Science.”

    Nonsense? That’s your opinion. Until you can invent a time machine and take me back to prove it, Creation is just as valid a theory as the cosmic lottery theory you Darwinists follow. Findings on the ground can be spun to support either theory. I see nothing wrogn with traching both Creationism and Evolution, and telling kids, here’s the theories, you decide. That’s how I’m bringing my children up. I WANT them to have their own beliefs on Christianity and not just parrot me.

    YOU: Your party believes Corporations are more beneficial to humanity than humans.

    Well I gotta go against “my party” then. I think soleless corporations are the same evils as bureacracies- except the common folks don’t get to vote for who’s in them. I’m against Corps getting tax breaks or preferential treatment. But if we try to pass laws to change it, we’ll end up wearing red stars and callign each other comrade. Unfortunately it is human nature to take advantage of others and find loopholes in the law for personal gain. Especially when you’re a bunch of lefty heathens, heh, heh.

    YOU: History will prove you wrong TR. I am 100% certain of this.

    I’ll take that bet. How’s this, when we one day meet in heaven or on the New Earth created after the events of Revelations, we’ll compare notes. Loser has to do what, three hundred pushups? I mean, you are a Christian? Remember though, that I’ll need some time to recover before I can do those pushups- I’m going to be devastated by the absence of twinkies, softdrinks and processed cheese products. Be kind and let me get my cheese-less wits about me then we can settle up.

    YOU: “This Administration will go down as one of the worst, if not the worst, in History. Every thing they touch turns to shit.”

    I dunno, that tax-back credit for having kids a few years ago sure helped me. Shit on the otherhand is not helpful, even when contained in our youngest’s diaper.

    YOU: Did you read the paper this morning? If so you read that the “Surge” has not changed anything. The “War on Terror” in Iraq is an abject failure.

    Got a link for that declaration? I don’t read the paper. Takes to long- I can read a larger volume of news on the net much faster.

    YOU: All because of one man’s ego and his inability to admit mistakes. (That is “anti-social”).

    Yeah, but we executed Saddam and his ego, so it’s not a total washout.

    YOU: You are the one who defends him and that makes you every bit as culpable.

    I’d love to take credit for killing all those terrorists in Iraq. But since I’m safe at home, I can’t really. Thanks for the kind words though. (For the record, I did put my ass on the line by enlisting back during the Desert Storm Era, but that hardly compares to today’s fighting)

  11. Wow. My apoligies for a plethora of typos in my last post. Lunch is calling and I was being lazy and didn’t proofread.

  12. “If you’re going to call the President and his administration criminal, then you have to use the same standards fo Judgement for all politicians, and then they’re pretty much ALL criminals. If you’re going to be fair.”

    Concur 100%. Why do you think I have difficulty with “Liberals?” I’m 100% individual, and apparently this is frowned upon in most circles.

    Clinton was a criminal, but Churchill, no. WWII was not a pre-emptive war. This war was planned out over a decade ago and Neo-Cons used 9/11 as an excuse. Neo-Cons by the way, are Utopians.

    “Creation is just as valid a theory as the cosmic lottery theory you Darwinists follow. Findings on the ground can be spun to support either theory. I see nothing wrogn with traching both Creationism and Evolution, and telling kids, here’s the theories, you decide.”

    Wrong. There is nothing Scientific about Creationism whatsoever. It is religion. And to claim there is just as much evidence is ludicrous. The only “evidence” you have for the existence of “God” is your faith. And let’s be clear, you acknowledge that’s how you want to raise your child, therefore I can logically deduce that is how you were raised.

    If we only depended on logic and what we can observe, and eliminated indoctrination from birth, religion would more than likely cease to exist.

    If you were raised in Pakistan you’d be telling me about the wonders of Islam.

    “Yeah, but we executed Saddam and his ego, so it’s not a total washout.”

    I find such statements disingenuous, and justification through hindsight.

    You are aware when he did most of his “gassing of people, stockpiling of weapons etc” the GOP fully supported him, are you not? In fact, much of the technology came from us. Saddam most likely would have not survived the 1980’s without our assistance, specifically the GOP demi-God Ronald Reagan.

    Where were your protests then?

    As for a link to the article, most certainly:
    Iraq Report Details Lack of Progress

  13. And about the typos, who cares? This is much more fun than grammar.

  14. I have a problem with one of Troglodite’s comments:

    YOU: ” Your party wants to put discrimination into the Constitution, “The Gay Marriage Amendment.”

    And that is totally logical, from my view. If government id prohibited from dictating the how or why of Christianity, and since marriage is an invention of religion, then the government should not be allowed to “allow” gay marriage. Barring it is theonly way to keep rules-benders from trying to officially endorse it.

    Actually, “if government [is] prohibited from dictating the how or why of Christianity, and since marriage is an invention of religion, then” the government shouldn’t be allowed to make any laws regarding marriage.

    I’m not sure I get the “should not be allowed to ‘allow'” argument.

  15. By the way, I’m not making my own statement, which would reflect my personal beliefs there. I’m just following trog’s “logic” to its proper end. It seemed to stray from the correct path to me.

  16. YOU: This war was planned out over a decade ago and Neo-Cons used 9/11 as an excuse. Neo-Cons by the way, are Utopians.

    I’ll agree that anyone who calls themselves a neo-con is an insufferable loser, like those that brand themselves liberals. Or Trekkies.

    Planned over a decade ago? Hmmm, tough to respond to that. Just about every contingency is “planned” in the Pentagon so we’re prepared. I dont’ see you wearing a tinfoil hat, so I don’t think you’re one of those idiots that thinks the U.S. staged 9-11… or are you?

    YOU: “Wrong. There is nothing Scientific about Creationism whatsoever. It is religion.”

    And what’s the science about evolution? Hmmm?

    You find bones in the ground and you decide that they prove a dinosaur existed. Did you come up with that on your own? No, you based that theory on someone else’s teachings.

    I find dinosaur bones in the ground, I say it proves the Book of Job where Job sees the Leviathan and the Behemoth and the book of genesis.

    Evidence can mean lots of things. Especially to those who already have their mind made up. And nlike Evolution, Christianity has the account of witnesses as to what happened. I don’t recall Darwin or Lamarck digging up any cave scrolls from Ugg the Cromag documenting evolutionary change over millions of years.

    Neither of us can “prove” our belief. But we can argue the merits of each until we’re blue in the face. As such, they are equal theories and should be taught equally. I think kids ought to get the whole gamut of creation theories- throw in some Viking and Hindi stuff as well. Make for a more rounded person. We need to stop teaching evolution as fact- it’s a theory and will remain thus until Dr. Who becomes a reality.

    Oh, and as for how I was raised.. if you must know, my parents were slacker-heathens. That is, they were too lazy to take me to church- especially after they divorced. I read the bible when I was young and formed my own opinions, dangnabbit. Sorry I didn’t robot along through school like so many of the rest of you.

    YOU: If we only depended on logic and what we can observe, and eliminated indoctrination from birth, religion would more than likely cease to exist.

    That is by far one of the stupidest things I’ve ever heard you write. But I think you just didn’t ponder your statement carefully enough. Check it out- what culture so far discovered on this planet DIDN’T invent some kind of religion to explain things? You remove all the religions currently in place (including your Darwinism) and people will replace it. We all want to know where we came from and why.

    ME: “Yeah, but we executed Saddam and his ego, so it’s not a total washout.”

    YOU: I find such statements disingenuous, and justification through hindsight.

    I can see where you might get that. Actually though I was almost pulling my hair out at how long Bush pussied around, extending deadline after deadline. Hell, I was rwady for him to be impeached for NOT invading Iraq before 9-11. I still think he’s a little on the wussy side of foreign policy. It’s like he’s a democrat sometimes.

    YOU: You are aware when he did most of his “gassing of people, stockpiling of weapons etc” the GOP fully supported him, are you not?

    That’s what I read. Have to say though that a few thousand dead Iraqis is better than a few million dead Americans. Iraq was a nice little battleground to engage the Soviets and their world gamesmanship so they couldn’t use the resources on us. As such, we kind of owe the descendants of those slaughtered. We shoudl be in Iraq repaying them for sacrificing so many of their countrymen to feed the Red Menace. Never thought of that before though- thanks! It’s a whole new side of the pro-Iraq War I can now use in arguments.

  17. “And what’s the science about evolution? Hmmm?”
    Here’s just a little bit of the science, but you’ll have to read, and since it “takes too long” I imagine you won’t. Of course, that kind of casts doubt on what you do or do not “know” doesn’t it?

    There is no mention of dinosaurs in the Bible. You have to try really really hard to interpret just a few obscure references to support such nonsense. If dinosaurs and man lived together it would be all over the Bible. That would be pretty big, and I imagine people would have run-ins with them on a regular basis, yet no mention of “Hamm” or anyone being eaten by a Tyrannosaurus.

    And why no art, from any culture, depicting humans and dinosaurs living together? I mean absolutely nothing. Surely there’d be at least one painting showing a man riding a Triceratops or something.

    “That is by far one of the stupidest things I’ve ever heard you write. But I think you just didn’t ponder your statement carefully enough. Check it out- what culture so far discovered on this planet DIDN’T invent some kind of religion to explain things?”

    I’m not talking about 10,000 years ago. I’m talking about right now. What we can observe with our current technology and our current knowledge of science.

    And I notice you skirted around the fact that if you were born in Pakistan you’d be a Muslim not a Christian. And you’d argue in the same way for Islam as you do now for Christianity.

    Religion is geography.

    Iraq fought Iran not the Soviet Union. Maybe you are confusing Iraq with Afghanistan who did fight the Soviets.

    Afghanistan was also the launching pad for 9/11. The Taliban, who Republicans also supported in the 1980’s, are the ones who gave Bin Laden a safe haven. If not for that support the Taliban would have never gained power there.

    Oh, and Reagan also supported and helped train a man named uh…let me think…oh yeah, Osama Bin Laden. Surely you didn’t forget?

    We also armed and supported Iran. You do remember Iran-Contra right? I know you don’t read, but you do remember that?

    I’m wondering exactly what you do know about history or anything for that matter. You seem to hide behind your sarcasm a great deal.

    Now, I like sarcasm so don’t get me wrong, but that seems to be the foundation on which you rest your “reasoning.” Very unstable when the venue changes.

    Read up on some history TR. Read about Evolutionary Theory.

    I went to Catholic School for 9 years. I know the Bible.

    If you want respect you actually have to know what in the Hell you’re talking about.

  18. Son of a bitch! I spent ten minutes responding and my fucking router disconnected me right when I submitted the response and I lost it!

    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I’ll be sure to come back tomorrow and try again.

  19. No worries TR. I work at my computer so I’m always here, at least it seems so.

    Shit…

    And I’m still not finished. Whomever it was that said writing “isn’t real work” needs to be castrated.

  20. Okay, Fairlane, last night I tried to reply to your latest post. By the way, you are killing me with all this crap. I mean, it was so funny I laughed my ass off. This raised my bloodpressure for a few minutes. And doctors claim that high blood pressure shortens your life span. I should sue your smartass.

    As for your “There is no mention of dinosaurs in the Bible.” statement.

    Um, yeah there is- depending on which Bible you read. See, the Catholic bible sanitzied a lot things, for example turning the Leviathan and Behemoth into a hippo and croc. The King James BIble leaves it a bit more ambiguous. Don’t believe me, compare the wording of the two passages.

    Want a link about the subject? Well, first off, beware! There are a SHITLOAD of websites that deal with this subject. One could spend hours and hours on the subject. In fact, I have spent hours and hours on it. That and all kinds of other bizarre crap. I love all that weird Coast to Coast woo-woo stuff. Occasionally however I stray across something that makes sense.

    http://www.christiananswers.net/dinosaurs/j-where2.html

    You then went on and declared: “If dinosaurs and man lived together it would be all over the Bible.”

    Oh, yeah. And I guess people didn’t take shits or wipe their asses back then either, hunh? I don’t recall any reading on that subject in the Bible.

    Not EVERYTHING is in the Bible. Like how they built the pyramids, or how to make a shovel. Do they tell us about Parrots or Rattlesnakes in the Bible?

    Don’t feel bad though- we never saw anybody take a crap on “Lost IN Space” either. Come to think of it, where was the shitter on the Jupiter 2?

    Then you went on and asked “And why no art, from any culture, depicting humans and dinosaurs living together? I mean absolutely nothing.”

    Wrong. Check this out;

    http://www.trueauthority.com/dinosaurs/dinosaurhistory.htm

    That’s a link about a carving found on the walls of Babylon of an animal unknown to science .

    Now being a Catholic, the above link should interest you, since you actually have a book in your Bible on the subject. And isn’t that a pisser? I mean, here you have the coolest book – Daniel killing a Dragon- and they put it in the Bible of the denomination that DOESN’T read their Bible.

    YOU on religion invention: I’m not talking about 10,000 years ago. I’m talking about right now. What we can observe with our current technology and our current knowledge of science.

    Science is a religion, and you know it. If it all- science, christianity, etc.- went away, and we were reverted to a stone age like existence- like the human slaves in Planet of the Apes, people would just invent new stuff. People want to knwo where they came from and why. It’s human nature. You’re full of crap on this one.

    You then accused me of “skirt(ing) around the fact that if you were born in Pakistan you’d be a Muslim not a Christian. And you’d argue in the same way for Islam as you do now for Christianity. ”

    Well, see I didn’t get that was your point. My bad. But no, you’re wrong. See the closest I got to religion as a kid was going to Catholic church on occasion with some of my relatives. I read the Bible (my first was a Gideon) and made my own mind up. If I had read the Islamic Book of Satan, I would have lent it the same credence as well… the Book of Moron(s). So no, if I was born in Pakistan, I’d still be a Christian and probably working in a Dell Call Support center somewhere.

    You want to argue Iraq and Iran?
    Blah, blah, blah, blah. See we can argue this crap back and forth ad infinitum. You want to believe a bunch of crazy conspiracy shit about Reagan this and Regan that. I then would point out Clinton had the same chance to whack Osama but was evidently too busy planning Vince Foster’s murder and getting blown in the White House. It just goes back and forth.

    Here’s my bottom line: The Soviets were out to rule the world. The Middle east was a little testing field for us and them to work out our aggressions- fighting by Proxy, testing our weapons. Yeah, it was wrong from a Christian perspective to do it, but it’s better than us growing up in our parents’ fall out shelters or living out the events of “Red Dawn”. We wasted the Soviets’ time and resources in that region.

    Next, you wondered “exactly what you do know about history or anything for that matter. You seem to hide behind your sarcasm a great deal.”

    Hide? I’m 6’4″ and weigh 300 lbs, about the only thing I could hide behind is the overblown-ego of that insufferable prick Algore. Of course that would mean being in the same room with him and I frankly couldn’t stand to do so. I’d rather watch Barney.

    Back to your original question, I’m not degreed on History or anything, but I like to think it’s one of my better subject areas. I can remember stories much better than names and numbers for example.

    YOU: I went to Catholic School for 9 years. I know the Bible.

    That’s funny. What, were you the rebel Catholic who actually read the Bible? Wow. Now I know a whole TWO Catholics who know their bible.

    So the Bible and history are your forte? Riddle me this Cath-man, how many Popes have been married? Do you really know your own religion?

    Finally, you ended with “If you want respect you actually have to know what in the Hell you’re talking about.”

    I don’t need any respect- unless it comes with a juicy cheeseburger and a side of fries.

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