When It Comes to God, How Do You Know If You Made the Right Choice?

fairlane127.jpgRecently my homeboy Chad (My Thought World) and I were having an in depth discussion, as we’re prone to do every week or so, and we meandered, actually I meandered, onto the subject of Religion.

Chad and I discuss Religion quite often, and although we vehemently disagree we never argue or get upset with one another. (Chad is a rare Wingnut indeed, and in fact I think dwelling in his heart is a Liberal yearning to be set free). Anyway, we have these discussions, and we always have a fun time doing so, and things never get heated or out of hand. (To be honest, I find it easier discussing these matters with Chad than I do with many of the “Liberal” minded people I encounter).

As we’re talking, I realize I’ve never asked Chad “The Question.” The question no one has ever answered, at least not in a way I find satisfactory. I first asked “The Question” (Or a variation of it) when I was but a high water khaki wearing Lad in Catholic grade school (Much to the chagrin of the Priest who was teaching our Religion class).

“How do we know?”

Now, I don’t mean, “How do we know God exists?” Such questions are pointless and lead nowhere. I mean “How do we know you, or anyone, is right about God?” In other words, how am I supposed to know if Catholics or Baptists or Hindus or Wiccans or whomever is telling the truth? What if they’re wrong, and it turns out Shakers were the ones who truly understood? How are we supposed to know?

In all Christian faiths, the ones I’m aware of anyway, they begin with the premise that humankind is innately flawed, “Original Sin.” We are forever tarnished by the actions of Adam and Eve in the “Garden of Eden,” and only through accepting Jesus as our Savior can we be “Saved.”

According to God, humans are immoral, ego driven wretches who possess neither the will nor the ability to behave in a way deserving of Eternal Paradise. We are incapable of saving ourselves, which is why Christians say being a “Good Person” simply isn’t enough. No human can earn their way into Heaven on their own. God had to sacrifice his only Son in order to open the Gates of Heaven for us.

Okay.

Maybe I’m reading this wrong, but it doesn’t sound as though God has too much faith in the Human Race. In fact, it appears he thinks we’re pretty damn stupid and if given the choice between Spanking the Monkey or feeding the poor well…pass the KY.

If that’s true, here’s my problem, and it’s a big problem. If God can’t trust us or our Judgment when it comes to behaving like civilized people how can he possibly trust us when it comes to Religion and our Eternal Souls?

So I say to Chad,

fairlane127.jpgLook man, I have this problem and maybe you can help me out. If in God’s eyes I’m flawed, and a miserable excuse how in the Hell can he place the onus for choosing the right team squarely on my shoulders? I can barely match my clothes without a woman’s assistance. Surely he has to give me a little leeway in this regard doesn’t he? What if I choose wrong?

(He sits for a moment and then asks)

I’m not sure I’m following, what do you mean?


fairlane127.jpgOkay. You tell me your version of Christianity is the ‘true path,’ right?


Yes.


fairlane127.jpgThat means that even other Christians are wrong, and that they along with me, and about 80% of the world are going to Hell. You do think I’m going to Hell don’t you?

(To Chad’s credit, he didn’t want to answer that question. Some of the Christians I’ve known jumped at the chance to tell me I’m going to Hell. But in the end he does. I’m not Christian, therefore it’s Hellfire and O’Reilly’s inane “I have a tiny Penis” ranting for me).

fairlane127.jpgDo you think that’s fair Chad?


Do I think what’s fair?


fairlane127.jpgDo you think it’s fair that at least 80% of the world is going to Hell simply because they chose the wrong team? How are we supposed to know? Isn’t it similar to trying to pick the winning Super Bowl team before the season even begins? On paper the Chargers looked mighty tough last year, but in the end they flamed out. It just seems wrong to me.

What you tell me about your religion being the “true path” etc is no different than what a Muslim or Hindu or Jew tells me. You say the same things, “We’re the ones who got it right?” But my problem is, and no offense, how do I know you got it right? Each Religion claims the “Truth” with equal veracity, so I can’t rely on Passion as an indicator, and if I look at actions the Jews, Muslims and Christians are definitely out of the mix. Should I go with the Hindus? After all, they have numerous Gods and if I piss a couple off I still have a chance at least one of them will like me.

How am I supposed to fucking know Chad is what I’m asking? I’m not asking you to trip you up, and it’s not one of those “Ah ha! Gotcha!” questions that the so-called Global Warming skeptics love to ask. I’m absolutely serious. I cannot, for the life of me, discern who’s telling the Truth because everyone says they’re telling the Truth, but that can’t be right or can it?

Again, to Chad’s credit he didn’t come back with one of the rote answers I’ve heard in the past. “You’ll know because your heart will tell you.” Nope, not good enough. My heart has told me some fucked up shit before, but at the time I was convinced it was the “Absolute Truth.”

He paused and said,

That’s a good question, and I’m not sure if I can answer you because I don’t know. There’s nothing in the Scriptures, at least nothing I’m aware of, addressing that question.

I really don’t know. I’ll have to look into it, and see if I can find something.

We haven’t spoken since, so I don’t know if he has an answer yet, but I’m fairly certain there is no answer. I’ve asked numerous people this question, and as I said no one has ever answered in a way that satisfied me. It always boils down to, “You’ll just know.” But that is a shitty answer, and it’s really a cop out.

How do we know?

Of course, I’m assuming for the sake of this discussion that there actually is a God. But if there is does God honestly care which team we choose? And if he does isn’t that a tad sadistic?

He knows we’re idiots, and can’t be trusted, yet he forces us to make a choice that if made incorrectly results in us being cast into Hell forever? Think about that,

fairlane127.jpgDamn, I’ve been in this mother fucker for 10 trillion years listening to O’Reilly blather on and fucking on pointing his impotent finger at me. Is my time up yet?

Nope. You have forever to go.

fairlane127.jpgAin’t that a bitch!



If God is that petty and cruel, then that means the Nutcase Muslims who strap bombs to their asses, and the “God Hates Fags” psychopaths from Westboro Baptist Church are the ones who got it right. (I’m not linking to their site because they’re fucking crazy, but if you’re interested in checking it out the WBC’s website is called “God Hates Fags”).

I find it incomprehensible that if there actually is a “Supreme Being” who is Omnipotent and Omniscient he/she/it would be so ignorant. It’s illogical. And how can a “Perfect Entity” be illogical? Perfect means without flaw. Sending billions of people to Hell because they made a bad decision, even if it was made in good Faith, is flawed reasoning especially when the “Supreme Being” knows we’re only a few I.Q. points away from being Monkeys or Cats.

Hell, the Average person can barely write a Damn sentence, and I’m supposed to trust them to lead me down the path toward “Salvation?” I don’t fucking think so.

Either God is “Perfect” and this idea of “We Are the Only Ones Who Got It Right” is a bunch of bullshit or God is Imperfect and all bets are off.

Personally, my conception of “God” is nothing like the “Religious.” I see “God” as the Energy that makes up the Universe in which we live. All things: rocks, trees, Cats, Humans, O’Reilly’s finger are made of the same Energy and that is the “God” which binds us all. This idea of a White Bearded Elderly Man is odd to me, but whatever. I really have nothing against the idea of God, but I do have a problem with many of God’s Followers.

So, I’ll put the question to anyone who’s interested in adding their two cents. What do you think? I’d really love to hear from some of you who usually don’t comment. No one is going to attack you. Do you agree, disagree, do you have the answer to my question? I’d love to know.

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~ by fairlane on August 12, 2007.

57 Responses to “When It Comes to God, How Do You Know If You Made the Right Choice?”

  1. What worries me is that I would wind up in the christian heaven and spend eternity with the likes of jerry falwel and pat robertson. EEEeeeeeeeeewwwwww.

    If any of the religions are right about there being a heaven and hell, I think all the really cool people would go to hell, only the annoying assholes are in heaven…

    The scientifically impossible I do right away
    The spiritually miraculous takes a bit longer

  2. What I have always found to be a riddle is when people (Wingnuts,etc..) preach to you that Lucifer is the great deciever, the grand liar of all time.

    They tell you this just before passing the offering plate and asking you to have faith. The question that always lingers in my mind;
    ‘Am I being lied to right now?’

    Then I spend days arguing with myself about whether Lucifer has decieved us all into following organized religion instead of natural impulse or not.

    I mean if you listen to what the basic idea of hell is, it sounds alot to me, like the world that most organized religions would like to see us living in today. Sex is either bad or only for men to enjoy, etc.., we should all slave onward day after day with no end in sight, etc.., we should all deny our selves those things which natural impulse tells us are those things we most enjoy, etc.. .

    That damn Lucifer, I think I may have been decieved!!

  3. seems to me, the passage to tell you exactly which religion is right is quite blocked up.
    there are a few things though that should be given some thought before going into the “heaven and hell” business.

    firstly, God do trust you and that’s why he gave you the freedom to choose to follow him or not, to put him as Lord of your life or not… And though many have turned away from God and do evil (ie sin against others and against God), God still love the world and didn’t want to let go, so he sent Jesus to die on the cross, defeat death so that whoever believe will be saved. He’s more of a bridge to the broken relationship between man and GOd.

    What it differs from other religion is THIS salvation thingy…. This salvation represents God’s love, mercy, hope and most importantly that He is gracious and He does know and understand what you and I go through.. Jesus, the one we believe in lived on earth wrap in human flesh, treated the same way by other humans didn’t he?? The most prominent difference of all, is that he died and rose from the dead…..He is a LIVING God….. He lives and we worship Him in spirit and truth….

    turning to the thing about the heavy consequence for not believing (ie hell) .. God’s place is in heaven, a place where He dwells. And if you follow Him, then you’ll be where he is, but if you chose to go away from Him, that means that you don’t want to be at the place He is (that’s why you are walking away from Him right?) so you have choose not to be in heaven.. Whether the other place to go is somewhere as bad as hell, you’ll only find out when you die. For those that never heard of God, they would be judged separately. But for those who know of the gospel, there’s no excuse to say that you don’t know…

    but main focus of, what i always emphasize on, try to look at the process (God’s works on lives) before you look at the ends (heaven or hell).. God worked in many ways in peoples lives, differently for each, according to their abilities and gifts, and when you experience the relationship that God has on your life if you give him a chance, you’ll know and see the fruits of His work on yours thus that’s mainly how many of us know its Jesus whom we believe in…you have to seek this relationship with Jesus…its not a matter of believing and that’s it.

    One example is William Wilberforce , try watching “Amazing Grace” movie. You can read about others, or get close to a church near you (I go to Every Nation Church, you can search for one church near you at http://www.everynation.org ) and hear their testimonies of God in their life.

    Get to know the process first, before you try to judge the end.

  4. In brief, I think and I believe religion was invented by man because we’re afraid of death.

    Death is some scary shit. Imagine it: all that we know, all that we are, our ability to enjoy food, music, sex, just stops. It’s not fair and it sucks.

    So, we created this wild and unwieldy dogma that says if we’re good little boys and girls here on earth, at the end of the journey, the great God father figure rewards us with eternal life sitting at his side where we fethc him his Miller-lite and rub his feet.

  5. Well but what if there’s something supernatural? There must be some God somewhere, because scary things that nobody can
    explain happens, for example healings (people get healed just like that, without medications, like cancer tumours that just shrink and disappear in 10 seconds) That tells me there is a God.

    Personally, I believe in God, because I have experienced his love and peace, something that I can’t get without the relationship with God. I do really mean it… I could die for my belief, because Jesus has forgiven me, given me overflowing life, answers on prayers…

    You ask if it’s fair that people get to hell if they haven’t accepted Jesus?
    I’d answer like this:

    God created man. God gave man their own will, so that they could choose to follow God or not. Man chose not to follow God and a wall came between man and God, because God is holy (without sin). God gave man the ten commandments to show man that they are sinful and need to come close to God and if they followed the rules and offered some animals they were purified, they were purified by good deeds. But God loved the world so much that he sent his own son, Jeus Christ, that died on the cross for our sins. He took all the sin, shame, sickness upon himself. And through his death the wall between man and God was taken away, because if you accept Jesus christ as your personal saviour this wall between you and God is taken away. You recieve it by grace, not by doing a lot of stuff. God want everybody to be saved because he loves us so much!! But if man doesn’t accept Jesus God cannot do anything about it.
    What about they that haven’t heard about God? I think that God sees these people’s hearts. But I have no idea. But what I know is that God is fair. But we christians have the responsibility to tell the people, but it’s still their choices.
    It’s like a father that loves his sons and daughters so much, but if his children don’t want to see him and meet him at all he cannot force them to be with him. God don’t force us at all. It’s my and your choice.

    This was just my thoughts, a long text (sorry) 🙂
    Interesting to read your post and comments!
    If there’s anything that you’d like to ask, just ask.

  6. I firmly believe we make of this life, what we do, and any “heaven or hell” is what we make right here, right now.

    Have you ever seen, or read Bernard Shaw’s “Man and Superman?”

    http://www.bartleby.com/157/

    Act Three is a good un! ; ) Cheers Bro!

  7. ^ thats my opinion. you asked, so I answered… when someone is trying to give you some feedback, why moderate away the comment ??

  8. Hey, God wants all men to be saved. He will judge those people who are outside the Church of God.

    How come you find it cruel to judge people but then again you are judging God?

    please visit this site and hopefully, you find answers to your confused state.

    esoriano.wordpress.com

  9. I’m not going to respond to the comments just yet because I’m hoping more people will join the discussion. I’d love to hear from people who practice religions other than Christianity. (Not that I don’t want to hear from Christians as well, but this conversation is about all belief systems not just Atheists vs. Christians).

    The reason comments are moderated is because:

    1) I generally write about politics and I receive some very nasty and even threatening responses. That’s crap, and by Moderating Comments I can discourage such nonsense.

    2) It keeps away Spambots. For some reason, I get a ton of Spam.

    Your email address does not appear and no one is going to use it or send you Spam. It’s just a way to make sure you’re actually a human, and as I said, to discourage fools from running their yaps, and threatening people.

    I’m not going to censor or delete your comment, and it’s not necessary for you to have a “Blog” or a website to respond.

    Anyway, I hope that clears things up.

    The Management

  10. Fairlane,

    As you know I am a person of little faith (I don’t even believe that the next Kleenex will pop up, and most of the time I’m right). I sometimes wish I had some faith, but mostly I am glad that my thoughts are my own and I have the ability to reason.

    Given that, my personal code of conduct is not dissimilar to “Bill and Ted” — treat everyone excellently and leave the campsite cleaner than you found it.

    As for the rest: does it matter if the various religions are right or wrong? Probably not.

    Regards,

    Tengrain

  11. I appreciate all the comments thus far, and I hope there will be more.

    Clap- I think another way of putting it is that it seems like all the humans will go to hell. I find that disturbing and unacceptable.

    I find a lot of religious people seem to be uncomfortable with their humanity, as though it’s a curse. It’s not.

    Lorenzo- Good to hear from you again. I agree completely with your statement and that’s actually the basis for my question. How are we supposed to know who’s telling the truth? You can’t see into the hearts of others.

    If you make a choice based on your heart and what you believe to be true how could God judge you for making a mistake?

    Amazing- I don’t know how you can start off without thinking about Heaven and Hell first. Without the ideas of Heaven and Hell Religion really has no point.

    The reason we are supposed to believe in Jesus is because if we do we have the chance to go to Heaven. If we refuse to believe we go to Hell.

    If you took away the ideas of Heaven and Hell, why would anyone follow Jesus? Whether people will acknowledge it or not the reason for following Jesus is so one day they’ll be rewarded.

    And the idea of seeing the “Fruits in people’s lives.” I agree I’ve met some people who are very happy with their decision to follow the Christian Faith, but I’ve also met happy people who follow Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Wicca, Judaism, and some who follow no religion whatsoever. That’s still extremely subjective, and doesn’t really answer my question.

    If Christianity is the only road to happiness how is it people who are not Christian are happy? Wouldn’t that be impossible? I guess you could say they’re not really happy, but you can’t know that for certain.

    I’m not trying to set up a strawman/woman but you didn’t really answer my question. I still have to make a subjective decision based on what seems right for me.

    A Muslim, Jew etc would present a similar argument as to why their faith is the best choice with equal fervor.

    And if that’s the case, I’m asking how does God expect people to know who’s telling the truth?

    Thanks for commenting.

    Christopher- I definitely think Death plays a huge role in the reasoning behind Religion. That’s why I don’t believe you can talk about Religion without talking about Heaven and/or Hell. Religion does what man cannot, conquer mortality.

    But I do think it provides some people with comfort, and I find no fault with that. My problem is if there is a God, this idea of being on the “Right Team” seems like utter nonsense.

    There is simply no way to logically deny that Religious choice is more often than not linked to Geography. If you were born in a Hindu village in India, and never met a Christian you’d live and die a Hindu. And even if you met a Christian you were still raised a Hindu. Most people stay with what they know and what’s comfortable.

    Ansoo- The “healing idea” is something I’ve heard before, but there are people who heal themselves without God’s assistance and they attribute it to the power of the Mind and Will.

    I’m not trying to contradict you, but that is the truth. Atheists have “miraculously” healed themselves as well.

    The Mind is extraordinarily powerful. A writer friend of mine spent several weeks walking around repeating, “My book will be published” over and over in her head. Not long after a publisher picked up her novel.

    And no need to apologize for the long comment. I appreciate your response.

    Coffee- I think I lean in your direction. We make our lives what they are. If there is a God, I believe that he/she/it would find no fault with a person who lived their life the best they could.

    Elman- I’m not in a “Confused state” nor am I asking to be converted. I appreciate your concern, but I can walk down to a local Church if I want to sign up.

    I’m not “judging” God, I’m judging the characteristics that humans attribute to God. They are illogical and contradictory. How can a “Perfect” being be illogical and contradictory?

    Tengrain- “As for the rest: does it matter if the various religions are right or wrong? Probably not.”

    I think that’s what I’m getting at. No one can answer this question without trying to convert you to their side. But all sides claim they are the “Chosen.”

    It’s completely subjective. My choice would be based on my own personal experiences and what appeals to me.

  12. Thanks for stopping by and the good advice on getting my own website domain and hosting.I did have the ip address blocked but i still think it’s not filtering my own clicks and as far as money goes, while i do have ads and such, my blog is not really expected to earn money. I own my own business and blogging is just a hobby, however i added ads because you just never know until you try. The purpose behind me wanting to track numbers is to see if putting any time at all into blogging was still worth it, after all, why would i write if nobody is reading it?

  13. ok, for me, i believed not because i didn’t wanted to go to hell (that’s what everyone’;s afraid of right??).. of course, it’ll be nice to be in heaven, i actually couldn’t care less where i end up with…. suprise? i believed because I felt God’s presence in my life, God changing me and insistance on saving me even though at one stage of my life, i tried to turn away and curse…I saw and seek this relationship and God revealed His grace to me through what He blessed me with, what was impossible to happen to someone did to me, this blessing…

    Let me tell you something, when I was young I actually believed that if I do anything against God, just anything at all, God will bring great wrath upon me (which is similar to that you when you say that if you don’t believe in Jesus you’ll spend eternity in hell)…. And at the most important point in my life, I was put into a situation…. Having this concept that God is like the Punisher if I do any wrong, when the tough situation came, I tried to battle against God because I was tired, frustrated and disbelieve (I really did try to battle, I cursed and swear at God, accused Him for many things)… But God didn’t send the lightning to strike me. Instead I saw His grace and that He is a loving God, and merciful God and He understands me more than I understand myself…. He blessed me with what I don’t deserve… I repented, got touched, saved, refined… whatever you call it. That’s the reason I believed..

    The salvation is just the first step in letting the world know that God still love them….Try asking people who repented and turn to believe Jesus, why did they do so, … It all started because they felt God in their lives, not the thoughts of heaven or hell…..

    the truth is its not just saying “Jesus I believe in you” and that’s it with where you go…
    sit back and relax after this and do nothing, continue with your own life after saying that one phrase….
    believing is about following and making Jesus Lord of your life. its about repenting over and over because we still commit the same sins (thus Christians are not perfect people), its about following his commands to make a change and love another,
    its all really hard!!!..

    So if you want to say only Christians can be happy, that is so totally untrue. Because the journey is really full of rocky ways before God completed to mould us according to His will, so actually much suffering is involved…I personally suffer much to cope with it because its not an easy task…But, You can see a change in their lives if they are true believer… and you’ll see none in those who just utter “I believe” and do nothing……
    But does that mean Christians has no joy at all like that? No. We find joy in the God, ie its not because our life is so easy and smooth flowing that we are happy, its because of this relationship with God that we are happy. I go through many tough times and see many of my friends break down, give up, etc…. But in those tough time, I still find peace in Him because He is a living God, He lives, that I can turn and pray to Him, that I know He knows what mess I am in, that if I continue to hang on to His ways He will reveal to me ,,….
    Other people with other religions can be happy and have a smooth life, that’s great… this has nothing to do with Christians only can be happy and others cannot…..
    God doesn’t expect you to “know” it … He expects you to seek it with Him… Each person will have a personal relationship with God…
    Seeking… ie just letting Him into your life, let Him reveal to you…

  14. and yes, religion does what man cannot, to conquer death. Jesus died, and resurrected from dead, He lives… but also, being with God gives you the power and faith to do what you believe cannot be done.. ie. change the world, and just every single people’s life you touched.. If you don’t believe in god, what’s the point of doing good anyway, isn’t it?

  15. I have no answer to your question and have, myself, always wondered why an “all-seeing and all-knowing” entity purportedly acts like a petty warlord.

    Enjoy the thread, my friend.

  16. Feith is one thing, and religion entirely another. I don’t hesitate to say that I have no use for religion at all.

    How much money, how many lives, have been wasted in the name of religion? Fighting wars over religion makes about as much sense as pulling guns because you think Kirk was the man and your neighbor thinks it was Picard.

  17. Hey holmes,
    Sorry I haven’t called this week. I’ve been thinking a lot about you since our last discussion, however. I even started to write you a letter, but then thought you’d think I was trying to convert you or something…lol…imagine that.

    Anyway, I did find a couple of verses which relate to this whole epistemological conundrum: How can we know? There are many different translations of this verse, but the one I like the best reads as follows: “Those who want to follow the will of God will know if what I teach is from God or if I teach my own thoughts.” (John 7:17) And in the book of Jeremiah, “You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.”

  18. There are many things we can not choose. Just like we can not choose who our parent are. We can not decide who comes to our life. We can not avoid some hurts due to our own mistakes or others mistakes. If you do believe in God, you would know that he would allow things happened in life with a purpose. BEcause sometimes I think accept = peace. Do you have to struggle that much to find out the ‘best’ religion before you can follow? I am a christian. But if someone or anyone tells me to despise another human being only because he holds a different religion…my heart tells me it is wrong. And also, it is not up to anyone in this world to judge who will be in hell or who will be in heaven. I trust God is a rightous God anyone who is rightious will be in his favor. And life itself is a gift. And the freedom of make a choice in life is the kindest gift god gave to his children. And no matter what choice you make, god will continue help you to find your way to the destination. It is all right to feel confused and angry and disppointed and to experience so called ‘orginal sin’. Just live a life with a happy smile and thankful heart no matter what frustrated you at the moment… As he said… this shall also pass.

  19. Hey fairlane! I insist that hell be reserved for the cool people. Let the zealots have their heaven, we can party in hell…

    The scientifically impossible I do right away
    The spiritually miraculous takes a bit longer

  20. Fairlane,

    There is a great book by C. S. Lewis called, “Mere Christianity”, which endeavors to explain Christianity to the lay person, but in an intellectual way. I am also a Christian, but like Chad, I can’t seem to find the right words to answer your questions myself. Maybe if I ponder them a bit I can come up with something. I’d much rather, for now at least, point you to other sources that have more extensively covered this topic. I’m not theological scholar, so the chances of me coming up with an answer to satisfy you are slim to none.

  21. We are human beings on Earth are meaning making machines.
    That is what we do. Far too much ink has been wasted on the subject of heaven , hell and which way of worshipping is best. God reaches all of us his/her/it’s own way.
    In fact I may step away from that assertion; God is in all of us, we are God.
    Some of us are more in tuned with our faculties than others but that does not decrease the wonder and magnitude of existence.
    It is too much for some to accept that ideas come to life……let me repeat… Your ideas come to life.
    Man was God’s IDEA according to scripture. Wec were created in his image.
    There has been a strong spiritual influence long before the monotheistic version of spirituality came to fruition.
    Comparative religion, forensic anthropology,astrophysics, archeaology are disciplines that document the similarities of mans existence.
    The “meaningless” answer to our “meaningful” existence has frustrrated billions indeed.
    It no longer frustrates me; I make my own meaning.

  22. Amazing– I appreciate your passion and belief, but to be honest you’re not addressing my question.

    Your experiences are subjective, and that’s my point. Religions go out of their way to make distinctions between one another claiming they are the only ones who truly understand God’s word, but no one can “Prove” that’s true. There’s no way for people like myself to distinguish between the Religions because they essentially make the same claims.

    If this is true, then how does God expect people to make a choice when it comes to Religion? And how can God punish people if they make the “wrong” choice or no choice at all?

    What I’m getting at is this separation of Religions seems to be a creation of human beings, and not the “Supreme Being.”

    I see little difference between Religions and any other human organization. “Join the Boy Scouts, we’re the Best!” Well of course they’re going to say that because they want people to sign up, but what if I like another organization better?

    Religions say the same thing, but go one step further, “Join us or suffer Eternal Damnation!”

    Phy– I don’t think God acts like a “petty warlord.” Humans act like petty warlords. Christians (I’m not picking on Christians, but that is the Religion we’re all most familiar, and they are the only ones responding) claim God created humanity in “His Image,” but it seems more honest to say we created God in “Our Image.”

    A “Perfect Being” created billions of people, but only offers a “Chosen Few” a chance to be “Saved.” Yet, there’s no objective way to determine who those “Chosen Few” are because they all claim that honor.

    Chad– Those verses don’t really answer the question. They’re ambiguous and could potentially set people up to “Fake It.” “Sure, I feel it with all my heart.” Isn’t it a potentiality that some people would try to convince themselves not because they’re dishonest, but because they really want to believe it?

    Also, I know you don’t believe Christians are the only ones who “Feel” God in their hearts. (I don’t think you do).

    Thanks for participating.

    Anon– “Do you have to struggle that much to find out the ‘best’ religion before you can follow?”

    I’m not attempting to find a Religion. I’m attempting to have someone who’s Religious explain, in a logical way, how they distinguish between themselves and other Religious people.

    Ultimately does it really matter what religion you choose? And what if you choose no Religion? Who’s right?

    Jolly– Yep, I maintain that Religions have little to do with God, and far more to do with separating people.

    Clap– If you listen to the major Religions, Heaven is and will remain deserted.

    Reasic– I actually have that book, and have thought about reading it for years, but it just sits there on my book shelf.

    I’m not going to say I’ll read it, but anything is possible.

    Here’s what I think.

    I look at the war in Iraq as not necessarily a war over oil and land, although there’s no denying those factors play a role, but as a war between Judaism, Islam and Christianity.

    It’s the same war the three major Religions have been fighting for over a thousand years.

    Yet, no one, at least no one I’ve ever met, can even explain why?

    If Religious choice boils down to Geography and subjective experience, why are people willing to kill each other over it?

    I promise if the U.S. were a “Muslim Nation” or if “Christianity” was the dominant Religion in the Middle East we would not be in this war.

    We divide ourselves over Religious choice, but no one can tell me how I’m supposed to know which Religion got it right or if any of them actually have.

    That makes no fucking sense. I’m asking a very Fundamental question, and apparently there’s no answer.

    If that’s the case then why do different Religions even exist? Why not just say, “This is what we believe, but we understand why you believe what you do, and in the end it doesn’t really matter because God loves all of us and could care less if we’re Christian, Muslim, Jew or Hopi Indian. We made this shit up, and now it’s time for us to stop.”

    We used to “know” for a fact that God made a “distinction” between the races. We “knew” that God loved White people more than blacks or Indians, but now we Know such beliefs idiotic, and racist.

    When are the Religions going to realize this about themselves and the distinctions they make between one another?

    People within the same Religion cannot even agree on who is interpreting “God’s Word” correctly. For example, some Christians believe that (To paraphrase) the idea man has “dominion” over the Earth means we can do whatever we want as long as it “benefits” human beings, but others believe this statement means we have a responsibility to take care of the planet and everything on it.

    Who’s interpreting that verse correctly? Well, it depends on who you ask doesn’t it? How is that different than one person claiming beets are delicious and another, like myself, saying beets are despicable, and should be banned? It’s completely subjective.

    If one Religion truly had the “Absolute Answer” then it should be easy for them to point it out, but no one can without injecting their subjective experiences into the conversation.

    Why would God, if he really cared, leave such a monumental decision so ambiguous and up to interpretation?

    My answer is, God would not, and it is we who care about such things because it makes us feel superior and it justifies our prejudices.

    It justifies this war just as it excused murdering millions of people to “Settle” this country.

    That’s my “opinion.”

    Dave– I agree, we are the ones who give our lives meaning. Too many lean on Religion as a source for their identity. They are nothing without it, and to me that’s a form of Co-dependence, and if you know anything about Co-Dep you know that people who engage in such relationships are anything but genuine. It’s dysfunctional, and parasitic.

  23. Fairlane,

    Why would God, if he really cared, leave such a monumental decision so ambiguous and up to interpretation?

    If I understand your question correctly, I think C. S. Lewis answers it directly in the book I mentioned earlier. I would highly recommend you at least skim it for that answer, if nothing else. By tomorrow, I should be able to get my copy of it and search for some quotes from it for you, if you don’t want to look through it yourself. I’m still thinking about the questions in your post. I might have a response in a while.

  24. Reasic- Cool I was actually just looking for my copy and I can’t find it. I may have loaned it out.

    Never loan out books or CD’s. I think that should be in the Bible.

  25. Malachi 8:11 – “Never loan out books or CDs, so sayeth the Lord.”

  26. Hi, I am Larry from Let’s Talk. I followed you back from Coffee Messiah, I hope you do not mind.
    I really enjoyed the post and the conversation you and your friend Chad had about “When it comes to God, How do you know if you made the right choice”.
    I am a Christian, but I do not like throwing my faith and views on others, but when a question, such as the one you asked is submitted, just maybe ones view or opinion is OK to give.
    I do not think there is a living soul walking around this earth who can answer this question unless God has actually held court with them in some way. We who choice to believe, take his written word on faith and those who do not believe disregard it and that is just it.

  27. Larry- I knew it! When I left Coffee’s place earlier I had this sense I was being followed.

    No I don’t mind Larry the more the merrier.

    “We who choice to believe, take his written word on faith and those who do not believe disregard it and that is just it.”

    What about people of other religions who choose to follow God just not the Christian God? Are they “disregarding” God’s word?

    I guess I’m confused. If no one can answer this question Larry, then what’s the point of having established Religions who claim they know the “Absolute Truth?” How can Absolute Truth be based on human subjective experience?

  28. “What about people of other religions who choose to follow God just not the Christian God? Are they “disregarding” God’s word?”

    I guess I should have said no man or woman on this earth that I know of can answer the question, unless they have seen God.

    I wonder how man can go all the way back to the big bang and find nothing that caused it…how can nothing, create anything?

  29. “I wonder how man can go all the way back to the big bang and find nothing that caused it…how can nothing, create anything?”

    I don’t know Larry, Bush seems to be creating a mountain of stuff. Most of it is crap, but it’s stuff nonetheless. And he’s about as close to a nothing as you can get.

    My problem isn’t with God Larry. It’s religion. It seems on a mass scale it only causes pain and suffering, and war.

    Not the intent I know, but history is littered with the casualties of the well intended.

  30. I’ve been a Cowboys fan forever. Stuck with them these past zillion years when they have been for shit. So I figure I already have some points against me for just being damned stupid. If there was a god he would have smited me along time ago just for that one decision.

    By the way, I loved the little icon you used for Chad’s quotes.

  31. Fairlane,

    I still intend to summarize C. S. Lewis’s argument for Christinity in his book that I mentioned, but I wanted to address one of your more recent questions via his book first:

    What about people of other religions who choose to follow God just not the Christian God? Are they “disregarding” God’s word?

    I thought Lewis had an interesting explanation for this:

    Is it not frightfully unfair that this new life should be confined to people who have heard of Christ and been able to believe in Him? But the truth is that God has not told us what His arrangements about other people are. We do know that no man can be saved except through Christ; we do not know that only those who know Him can be saved through Him.

    He then goes on to make the case that if you are truly concerned about the “the people outside”, the most unreasonable thing for you to do would be to “remain outside yourself”. However, we can save that for another day.

  32. I grew up Catholic (what Italian-American can’t relate to that?) and I was always the pain-in-the-ass kid in Cathecism school each Sunday who questioned everything (see how little has changed?) much to the annoyance of the nuns (who I really adored) who patiently tried to address my questions.

    But, those questions remain unanswered for me.

    “How can an all-loving God allow the holocaust?”
    “How can an all-loving God allow children to die of cancer?”
    “How can the creator of all things allow animal torture?”

    Yes, the nuns tried to answer my questions in Cathecism school but, as with all things religious, they were forced to lapse into doctrine and dogma and none of it got to the essence of my question.

    Leaving the Catholic Church made me free in many ways. I never encountered evil priests who tried to fuck as a boy — they were kind men, as the nuns were great too. For me, science addressed many of the questions the church efforted to answer but required that old, leap of faith and I’m not buying it.

  33. “We do know that no man can be saved except through Christ; we do not know that only those who know Him can be saved through Him.”

    That’s the answer Reasic. That’s what I’m trying to get at, but that’s not what Non-Christians are told. We are told we are going to Hell. But whenever I think of the concept of a “Perfect Entity” that simply makes no logical sense.

    I will never join a Religious organization just as I will never join a Political Party. I do not want to be tamed/domesticated. I have no desire to be confined and that’s how I see most Organizations, confining.

    Not to get off topic, but the response I get from certain “Liberals” has been very negative. Now, I recognize I can be very forceful, and opinionated. I am without a doubt an “Alpha Dog.” That is my nature, but I do not disagree with people simply to disagree, I’m not five. Yet, many people seem to get angry unless you’re willing to drink the Kool-Aid, and I mean every last drop. I cannot and will not do it.

  34. I appreciate your comments Reasic. Everyone’s comments. It proves people can discuss these issues without getting pissed off.

  35. Oh, I’m pissed. This is me being pissed. 😛

  36. Wow- so wish I had joined in a the beginning… So much here.

    I am a person of deep faith and am also religious- meaning I attend church regularly, participate in it etc.

    At the same time I make NO claims that I know anything more than anyone else and what is true is what is true for me. Do your own thing. I never want to be dictated to so why would I do that to you?

    If I did not find so much in my faith I would leave it, but it is sustaining and so important to me. Could that change? Sure, why not.

    A lot of it for me is also about social justice and that is largely lost on many of the more orthodox and conservative among us.

    Anyway = great reading.

  37. PoP- He didn’t think the “wingnut” was all that funny, but it is.

    I had no idea you were a Cowboys fan. God should punish you for that one:)

    Christopher- I’m a product of Catholic Schools as well. (Any parents out there might want to take heed. Look what Catholic Schools do to people).

    Fran- Thanks for your comments. I’m hoping the conversation might continue. Reasic is doing his research, and if he’s anything it’s thorough.

    I’d love to hear from some Non-Christians. I know everyone on the Internet is not Christian.

    I have added you to our blogroll. I see you at Tengrain’s, and I always enjoy your comments.

    Larry I added you as well.

  38. I will never join a Religious organization just as I will never join a Political Party.

    Well, Fairlane, for whatever it’s worth it took Nancy Pelosi’s idiotic utternace of “Impeachment is off the table,” followed by “Bush isn’t worth impeaching,” to force me to terminate my life-long membership in the Democratic party and become a registered Independent.

    My friends and family were horrified but, I’ve discovered many other kindred souls since making the jump and they feel the same as you and me.

  39. It’s a shame because in a way we’re out on an Island. I know more and more people are getting fed up, but we’re still heavily outnumbered.

    I gave up on Dems and Reps many years ago. I was raised Rep, but traveling and working as a Counselor changed my perspective. And then I worked for an environmental activist group for a time and it really soured me on “Liberals.”

    I’d rather be outnumbered though, and vote my conscience than choose between the “lesser of two evils.” That is not Democracy, that’s bullshit.

  40. Hi, I’m back.. hope you don’t mind…
    Well I can’t deny that your questions are hard to answer, because for one, no man can really know what God’s purpose is. If we do, then we are the same as God. I don’t actually attempt to say Yes, its true because its this, this and this. Because you have to seek from the God to know the true answer, free of bias from man’s answer… Is it possible to do that since you are alive? Yes… but I’m not going to divulge in that…

    Again, going back to your question “How can God punish us”…Just to reiterate, like I said, when the words reach to you, and you have decided not to believe, thus you have decided not to be where God dwells, a place name “heaven”…. You decided to walk away from God by not believing thus you have decided that you don’t want to be where He is, that is a place called “heaven”… whether the other place to go is “hell” I can’t tell…. Cause like I say, everyone will be judged separately. For those who never heard of the gospel before, God will judge them separately (ie apart from “do you believe” that question). However if you have heard, then there’s no excuse of not knowing.

    Now, about the different types of religion. Honestly, I don’t really know how it goes. But this is what I see from it. In the beginning, most people believe in God. Its actually not the geographic location or anything.. Everyone on the earth believed in God cause they believe in a “supreme being” and prayed to the invisible “supreme being” . Even in China, where 3 religions can be found, Muslim, Buddhism and Christianity and much more actually, if you were to asked the really really super duper old people, they actually believe in one invisible “supreme being”. Once a pastor in my church ever said, people while reading God’s words like to take the scissors and highlighters…Like I said before too, its hard to follow God’s command, its hard to follow him as your master, its hard to forgive something you hated when God asked you to… So along the way, man took the scissors and cut out the verses of God’s word that made it “hard” for them…. And along the way, man took the highlighter and highlighted the verses which is convenient for them without regarding on the actual context God is saying about…. So when this happens, it diverges from what God wanted, the basic principles of Christianity, and they form to become another religion… Some people find it hard to believe what they can’t see or touch, thus build idols to worship……

    The geographic location form the culture of people, not the religion… The geographic location forms the way people do things, not the religion…. the Western culture is different from the Eastern, the Middle East, the Pacific Islanders… freedom of voice may be alright in most Western countries, but in the Eastern and others, people are hesitant to do so, not because it’s the wrong thing to do, but its in built in the culture that respecting a person has greater priorities than voicing the wrong, instead they try to find other means of voicing even though it may take much longer time….. If everyone were to truly go out in the world like God commanded (ie in the name of God – for me Christianity), even though there are other religion, we will not fight each other, cause in the bible, one of Jesus’s most important command is to “love one another like you love yourself… and also love your enemy”. .. But acknowledging humans are not perfect, even we Christians are not perfect people, many a times we fail to realise this, and if we don’t repent, will divulge further into the ill practice. Thus there are war. Within a religion itself, there are war, because of difference in culture-the way people do things…. But people use the name of religion to fight.

    Yes, I agree that many people have different interpretation of the Bible, but no one knows the truth until we seek God to reveal the meaning in their lives. Metaphorically, its like you studying various theories in uni for each subject but you won’t truly know the truth until you go into the field and get some practical experience.. This practical experience is done by seeking God…

    Its like you can’t explain why things are made out of atoms and molecules, why is it atoms and molecules and not other things.. why do we need to drink water to live, not any other activity, wind exist but why is it a force which blows, how come energy can produce light to shine in darkness… It’s the same with this, how can you know it’s the right choice… there’s no one basic principle that can address it to all, but there is an impact on each person’s lives that made them believe. Like how you believe energy exist because you saw the light shining and how it enables you to do things in the dark, and properties of light to create things like projector, to look as far as the moon… how you shiver when the wind blows… you know it exist and believed because you saw the impact in your life…. To find the answer, you have to seek God and see how He impact on your life… and probably by seeking, like energy and light, can make you do impossible things. (eg. Look at micro creatures, fly to the moon, create a thing that can work many things like the computer – an amazing invention ain’t it)…..

  41. My family turned their back on me because I would not be a born again like them.

    I read the New Testament when I was a teen because I wanted to know what it said. What I got out of it was, be a good person, help others when you can, share what you have and don’t fuck people over on purpose. I live by that and so far, so good.

    As for the Cowboys, oh yeah, I’ll always be a Cowboys fan no matter how many smites I get. 🙂

  42. Fairlane,

    Fran- Thanks for your comments. I’m hoping the conversation might continue. Reasic is doing his research, and if he’s anything it’s thorough.

    I had actually dropped it, because I took your last comment to me to mean that you were finished talking about it. I didn’t want to push it. Now that I know this, I’ll pick back up where I left off. Maybe I’ll have a synopsis by tomorrow.

  43. Amazing- I may be misinterpreting what you’re saying, but it sounds like you’re making the claim that other religions copied Christianity when in fact Christianity is a relatively new religion, and borrowed many of its ideas and stories from other religions, including Pagan religions.

    Many religions don’t use the Bible or even mention the Bible or Jesus at all.

    And religion is most definitely Geographic. You’re conflating “Religion” with “God.” Yes, most cultures believe in “God,” but their interpretation of God is dependent often on where they were born (Religion).

    If you were born in India, the odds are quite high that you would either be Hindu or Muslim, as they are the dominant religions of that nation.

    PoP- I think those are pretty good standards. I’m trying to get past the Cowboys thing, and in time I will.

    Reasic- When have I ever stopped talking about anything? I resent your implication that I can’t blather on and on with the best of them.

    I look forward to the synopsis.

  44. Hi fairlane,
    I always seem to be late in any good discussions.
    I need a new radar or a seismograph, I reckon.

    Religion: the word in Sanskrit is Dharma.

    The root meaning of the word implies an underlying law or an order that exists to keep all life and nature in harmony with that order. That which holds together this world, the people of the world, and the whole concept of creation from the micro to the macro cosmos.

    It also means ‘right way of living’ or ‘proper conduct,’ especially in a religious sense.

    We believe one can only be born as a Hindu; there is no process or method of converting into hinduism. There is nothing to stop any one ‘following’ the hindu beliefs or the way of living, it does not make one a Hindu.

    Hinduism has no ‘founder’, the ancient scriptures were passed down as word of mouth and later some as written text. There are many different philosophies and practices all in this large basket called Hinduism. It is said that there are as many ‘ways’ as their are ‘opinions’.

    It is extremely unlikely that any Hindu will say to you that ours’ is the only way. If anyone does, you can confidently tell them to go and read their scriptures.

    I am handicapped by not knowing sanskrit, so everything I read is someone else’s translation (intrepretation?). It is said Hinduism has 330 million gods and goddeses, give or take away some zeros.

    My belief is, through millenia (since 5000 BC) the original philosophy and subsequent mythology have become closely intertwined. The original scriptures talks of ‘powers’ of creation (Brahma), maintainance (Vishnu) and destruction (Shiva). But those could well be descriptions of powers of quantum physics of the creation of the cosmos. The various gods and goddesses now included in our religion are called the ‘devatas’ are celestial entities / ‘heavenly beings’ and could well be alien visitors or indeed our ancestors. Somewhen in the past we lost the understanding of “Creation” of the Universe and got bogged down with numerous “god” and their worship.

    I believe that the ‘creation’ of the universe the stars the suns and the moons is distinctly different from the ‘creation’ of life. To try and attribute it to one creator is flawed and to give a humanoid form to that ‘creator’ causes more confusion.

    I hinted my thoughts in on this blog of mine.

    What if all the gods we describe with human forms were indeed alien/superior life forms? Like Krishna or Jesus Christ. What if heaven and hell are just references to different alien habitats / worlds / galaxies? I sincerely believe in it, to others it may be fiction or lunatic gibberish or indeed blasphemy. I do not voice it.

    I will not go into my interpretation of many historical ‘religious’ events, it will get boringly long.

    So you see, I was born to Hindu parents, what I am now, I haven’t got a clue.

  45. Little Indian- I too am sorry you missed it. Your views are definitely what I was looking for when I started this discussion. Not that I didn’t want to hear from Christians, but we hear from them all the time, and rarely hear the views of people who grew up or practice other religions.

    I actually have a Dharma Wheel tattooed on my left arm. I was much into Eastern Religions when I was younger, and I loved the symbolism of the Dharma Wheel, the interconnectedness of all life.

    “It is extremely unlikely that any Hindu will say to you that ours’ is the only way. If anyone does, you can confidently tell them to go and read their scriptures.”

    This is one of the ideas I was trying to get across that most religions do not have this “Us or Them” mentality.

    And if you look at cultures where the religion is “Us vs. Them” they tend to have extremely violent histories. Not that India doesn’t have its skeletons but nothing like the Middle East, Europe and the United States.

    Religion obviously reflects the culture.

    Thanks for your comments.

    If Reasic finishes his synopsis I may end up posting it, and I’ll let you know.

  46. Being a Christian, I have basis of saying that men’s opinion does not necessarily mean that they are not telling lies. It might not their intention to deceive people by way of their opinions, but based on the bible, this is how they are described:

    2 Timothy 4:3-4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

    Isaiah 29:13 The Lord says:

    “These people come near to me with their mouth

    and honor me with their lips,

    but their hearts are far from me.

    Their worship of me

    is made up only of rules taught by men.

    Just evident to their ideas how far they are willing to go.

  47. […] is my comment found from a post entitled, ” Spiritual Unfolding,” “When it comes to god how do you know if you made the right choice,” and “What have they done with […]

  48. thanks fairlane,
    I try not to comment on any other religion, even though I do have strong views about them. It leads to arguments that leads nowhere.

    I wrote here about Hinduism, as their is a trend of many to mock it without knowing the ‘history’ of the hindu society and how they have lived. Many practices that seems funny to westerners were initiated with a scientific reasoning; although I admit they are now hopelessly out of date.

    A ‘religion’ that doesn’t have a process of converting others into it, can never force conversion on anyone. India has her fair share of skeletons in her cupboard, most of it resulted from greed for wealth, kingdom, women or power, but I will be surprised if you find religion was the cause. The priests were a poor caste, never powerful, their job was restricted to daily rituals in temples or homes of the wealthy, and advice on religious matters to ordinary hindus. Not preach.

    I have not blindly followed my religion without questioning, the answers I have found is not what has become the standard belief. I eat beef and pork, (it is not prohibited in the scriptures! surprised?), do not go to temples, or worship or pray . My Ma was deeply religious (like the rest of my family) but she never objected to how I lived. She would say I had found my own ‘religion’, and she found no reason to be ashamed of how I lived. Her stance, in a nutshell is what hinduism is about. Each to their own beliefs and in their own ways trying to live a good life.

    If you have any curiosity or queries about hinduism, do ask, if I do not know I will find the explanation out for you. You didn’t comment on my belief of alien ancestors/visitors now worshipped as Gods. Would like to have your thoughts. If you are reluctant to write openly, do email me.

    Bye for now.

  49. Only a personal relationship with God can give you a true peace to know and truly understand that you are on the right path. It is the Holy Spirit that you ASK to ALLOW to live in you that teaches this. This requires faith. Hebrews 11 says,”Faith is being sure of what we hope for, and certain of what we do not see.” As for other religions, there is a verse in 1John4 that says, in a nutshell, that anyone (Or religion) that does not acknowledge Jesus Christ as God in the flesh, is not of God. This means that Mormanism, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Hindism..etc…are being decieved. Understand that you have to believe in the validity of the bible in order for these statements to be true in your life, otherwise they are just words, and everyone is right, and we ALL go to heaven for being good people and not killing anyone. Are we all so self absorbed that heaven will be an individual experience based on how WE believe life SHOULD be. That’s like saying 1+2=4. Its like changing the laws of physics. Just because people don’t believe in something, doesn’t make it ceasing to exist. You can see all the signs around you if you look. God is around you in nature. His fingerprints line the very peaks of the mountains to the depths of the sea. Everything in nature works together in perfect symbiosis and we are to believe we come from a “Big Bang”??! You don’t have to even be a Christian to understand that Evolution is in Left field. Has anyone realized that we are teaching Evolution as “fact” in school systems, and it still has not been upgraded from a Theory to Fact? A theory has to be “proven” in order for this upgrade to exist. This even comes from man’s law. Understand, everything is truly made by God. Man simply modifies what is already existing. The bible says that no one has seen God, no one has seen his face. “My ways are not your ways, and your ways are not Mine.” Therefore how can anyone boast about what they truly know about him. We are not with God now because of our sin. There can be no sin in Gods physical presence. Not because he hates us, or is mad at us. It is simply because sin will be destroyed at the very sight of him, and if sin lives in us, we must(Cannot) be in his presence. So in order for us to be in His presence, something must be done to man. The sin has to be gone(Erased) before you can be in His audience. This is only done through Christ. You are right, there has been more war and suffering in His “Supposed name”, than probably any in history. Understand that man has a distinct habit of blaming others and looking for justification in their wrong doing (Including myself). This is in our nature as you have said earlier in your statement. Why should you call upon a savior, if you don’t believe that you need one. The story is simple. God loves ALL and EVERYONE. God IS perfect in every way. God is Father, Son & Holy Spirit. We struggle day to day on earth with our and sin and other’s sin. Our problems stem from MAN’s sin (Our Sin), not God’s. He allows us to pollute our earth and with that comes disease and unnatural things all in the name of money and power (Created Idols of Worship). He has allowed us to make choices on earth in hopes that we realize that He truly does know what is best for us, much like a loving parent allows their kids to make tough decisions and learn from them. NO ONE knows how God will judge the world and its people. One mentor explained it to me like no other. He said,” You will be judged on what you do with what you know.” One Christian knows more than another. Some come from a confused past, some come from a loving. That statement is powerful and precise, and the spirit that lives in me confirms its truth in my life. Be careful of what you look for, it just might find you. And when it stares us in the face, and we reject it……well I guess that is going to be the chance WE ALL take. “If I am wrong, you have nothing to lose. If I am right, you have everything to lose.”

  50. Little Indian- I think the alien visitors is every bit as plausible. After all, isn’t “God” in a way an “alien?”

    As for questions about Hinduism, I generally come up with questions as I go along. I’m sure I’ll have some. Wait, here’s one. Are they continuing to use the Caste System in India? I guess I was always put off by it.

    Buzzman- You are making some serious assumptions about people and what they believe.

    To you, your religion is “Truth,” but to me it is not.

    And per my original question other than trusting you, I have no way to know what the “True” religion is. You already believe it is, and that eliminates your objectivity.

    The idea that “If I am wrong you have nothing to lose. If I am right, you have everything to lose,” is a weak argument. If people believe in God because of such reasoning I’d say they don’t really believe and that they’re simply trying to cover their ass, just in case.

  51. My friend, it is apparent that you are not looking for the truth, but a scapegoat for yourself. You are looking for someone to tell you what your itching ears are longing to hear. Exactly what that is, I don’t think YOU even know. A Liberal thinker stands on the fence. They see everyone as being right so they do not offend anyone. It might work in man’s politics, but it does not “hold water” in heaven. The most intelligent and wise people on this earth cannot hide their secrets from the Lord. Everyone has secrets in their hearts that they think no one knows about. They act righteous, until someone finds out about a truth that he/she does not want them to know. When the truth is exposed, their righteousness turns to sorrow and regret. Do you think that you are exclusive to this to this human condition? I know that I am not. How arrogant it must be to go through life with this attitude. Do you honestly believe EVERYONE is right in the world? If you examine the religious faiths around the middle east. You WILL find one thing that seemed to me a common denominator amongst all of them. They all reference about some sort of a spirit or form accending to the sky. Coincidence or not, one thing objective about this is SOMETHING happened there. There is a reason and a purpose why there is always turmoil in that part of the world. The only thing that is hard to decifer, is the humanism. Do you not remember in grade school starting a circle jerk with a rumor beginning in the middle. By the time the story got all the around, the story had only partial truths left from the original statement. Whether you believe in what you hear or not is irrelevant. It makes no difference to me whether you believe in what I told you or not. The fact of the matter is you heard the truth. You now cannot say that you didn’t hear it now. That is a fact. I’m sorry that you feel the way you do, but like I said, you DO have to believe in the validity of the bible in order for this truth to be understood. You have not chosen that route, therefore it is obvious you do not want anything to do with Christianity. That is your choice. That is God’s love in action. As for a weak argument and telling me I don’t believe what I do but in covering my “ass” as you put it. You have also made yourself out to me like you already know the answer to a webpage that you have asked people to comment on. You asked for an opinion, then you chastise me for telling you what I believe. If you believe to be objective as you say your are, you would not have reacted as you did. I am not mad, I am simply commenting. Thanks for the chance to speak. I hope you find what you are looking for.

  52. Buzz- You know you are quite the buzz killer. Out of one side of your mouth you claim “only God knows,” but out of the other you also know. (I’ll assume you don’t think you’re God).

    You don’t know what’s in my heart, but twice now you’ve told me. You don’t even know my name.

    This has nothing to do with fence sitting or my “itching ears” or any of your other “arrogant” and silly assumptions.

    It has to do with the fact that you nor anyone else can answer what should be a very fundamental question: How does God expect people to know what’s true when it comes to religion? I find it fascinating considering religious people are willing to kill others over the fact that they “know” they are right, but they can’t even explain how they know in any logical or reasonable way.

    Essentially your argument is God, the Christian God, is the only God because it says so in the Bible, which was written by God.

    They call that “begging the question” buzz and it’s a logical fallacy. And it doesn’t “prove” anything. If your entire religion is based on that foundation, then you my friend are living in a house of cards.

    And let’s be honest buzz. You didn’t participate in the discussion. You used it as an opportunity to sermonize. That’s not a discussion. I didn’t ask you to convert anyone. Do that on your own time on your own site.

    Unfortunately, you and one other person took this opportunity to lecture people, and it limited the conversation because it turns people off.

    I’m “chastising” you now buzz, before I was simply pointing out your “believe or else” statement is a load of crap and the majority of Christians I know would agree.

    If you don’t like being challenged, then don’t participate. I said everyone was welcome to join the conversation, I never said you are welcome to use my blog as a place to pontificate and then scold people if they don’t buy what you’re selling.

    One other thing.

    If you didn’t care what I think you wouldn’t have written your two very lengthy comments. Such statements are asinine. Of course you care what people think.

  53. Are they continuing to use the Caste System in India? I guess I was always put off by it.

    Unfortunately yes.

    The caste system is not within, hence enforced, by the religion. It was a ‘social’ structure that became woven into ‘hinduism’. It is still being practiced by those who blindly follows ‘religion’ without questioning.

    An example of another ‘practice’ that once was logical and served its purpose, but in the present times is hopelessly outdated and useless.

    It has been conveniently used for political gains by some, and utilising a caste based ‘vote-bank’ thereby reinforcing it into the society.

    I wrote this awhile ago its time to caste away our caste system.

    Most of us have erased it from our minds, some knowingly, some unknowingly, but for it to be abolished completely from society, will take time.

    BTW, caste system is not practised just by hindus only.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_caste_system#Caste_System_among_non-Hindus

  54. I’m sorry for offending you..I will say no more…other than good luck.

  55. You keep saying people are avoiding your question, so I wanted to do my best to answer it directly. Is this your question?
    ‘When it comes to God, how do you know you made the right choice?’
    I hope it is.
    I know, without a doubt that I’ve made the right choice. My God(s) (I’ll address it/them by ‘he’ to make it easier) loves me, for me. He loves me more than anymore else on the planet, but he loves you just the same.
    He’ll never leave me alone, or abandon me. Another plus. He’s suffered, just like I suffer. He understands humanity.
    And most of all, everything he asks me to do is for the better of myself, and those around me. Everything he’s already said, is to avoid us as much hurt, as possible. He wants the best for me. He doesn’t ask for war, and if he has helped us in the past it was after us as his followers asked for deliverance from whatever was in our land.

    I know I made the right choice, because he loves me. And I’m not completely bias, I’ve looked into other religions before many times. Yet I’ve never understood how people could follow them. This religion made the most sense because there’s not one par tin it that was meant to hurt me personally. If I hadn’t chosen to be with him, he would have given me just that, a life without him forever. And truthfully, I would have followed this religion, regardless of the afterlife.

    Simply because, everything that it stands for, is to make this world a better place. Absolutely everything. It doesn’t ask me to be alone, or to go it alone. It doesn’t ask for war. Some things people think are horrible about it, but they make sense once you think them through.

    I know I’ve made the right choice, because of ‘cause and effect’, and the effect this cause would have on the world if everyone followed it, would be phenomenal. It doesn’t ask for anything that is ridiculous either and it completely understands our humanity.

    If that doesn’t satisfy you, I wouldn’t blame you in the least.
    And, best of luck to you.

  56. Oops, forgot. Sorry.
    It makes sense when you take a breath and look at it and compare it to every one else.

  57. […] power of the dogs’ yeasts, will take time to listen to the Reader of the Holy Bible instead. Fairlane needs to learn the basics too though he has a good question below:  ‘Now, I don’t mean, […]

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