I’m Over It

Suzi Riot
suze.jpgI’ve made the decision to not blog about Clinton or Obama until we have an official nominee. Like many other smaller bloggers, I’ve grown disgusted and bored with the fighting and nastiness going on between progressive bloggers who are supposed to be on the same side. We don’t all agree on the issues and that is a good thing. I love debating ideas with bloggers who disagree with me. But getting personal, getting racist, getting sexist, getting mean is a sign of lack of intelligence. The differences between Clinton and Obama are not so great that they justify the kind of hateful comments we’ve seen around the so-called progressive blogs. I stopped reading Daily Kos a long time ago, but it’s not restricted to the A-listers. Want to make an intelligent argument in favor of your candidate? Don’t rely on personally insulting their supporters. State your case and leave it at that. Even if you’re frustrated, even if you’re angry, even if you’re disgusted with the other candidate, what exactly is it that you think you’re accomplishing when you personally tear apart other bloggers who support a different candidate than you do? What you’re doing is making yourself look ignorant and defensive as well as doing the Republicans’ work for them.

I am NOT, NOT, NOT saying we always have to be nice or that we all have to get along. Far from it. I’m not that nice to begin with. I don’t have a problem with making fun of other candidates, a la fairlane’s famous Care Bear Saga. We need to debate one another to keep us all on our toes and to refine the progressive message. But that’s not going to be done by squabbling like children and being assholes to each other. Want to tear somebody a new one? Great. Save it for the Republicans who want to stay in Iraq indefinitely, who want to dish out the corporate welfare to save their buddies’ asses but want to end all federally funded aid programs for the poor, who want us all to be Christians, who want us all to worship the Imperial Presidency, who want to spy on everything we do because we all might be terrorists, who want to disenfranchise whole segments of the population, who want to control women’s bodies, who want to establish a Theocracy.

Mary Ellen at The Divine Democrat has discussed these issues in greater depth than I have, so go read her excellent post.

Anyway, I just don’t want to blog about the Democratic primary anymore. I’d rather focus on the danger from the Republicans and what congressional Democrats are and are NOT doing to help us all out this black hole of despair and destruction into which we have all been thrown.

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~ by Suzi Riot on March 17, 2008.

14 Responses to “I’m Over It”

  1. Suzi you are soo right. I predict an incredible exodus from the democratic party if this bickering over delegates continues. the chatterin all the peanut galleries is the result of these unprecedented (Florida, Michigan) prolonged, highly publicized, differences.
    What a lot of people are waiting for is the usual change of rules in the case of black success.
    Like Tiger proofing a Golf course, outlawing slam dunks ect.
    We are used to mid-game rule changes. you have to admit it is hard to defend those questionable tactics.
    B.O. and HRC have taken it to the street.
    And you are right…it makes us all look bad.
    i have read some incredibly vitriolic posts regarding Obama and i a waiting for the historic ugliness to rear it’s head.
    i have also read some bad stuff about Hil,but nothing as bad or as often as Anti-Obama rhetoric.
    i have pleasantly surprised that the language and sentiments that can’t be veiled or apologized for have not made it to my corner of the blogotronosphere.
    But I know it is there…lurking.

  2. Exactly !!! I actually think all the ugliness swirling about caused me to get physically sick last week. I literally could not get out of bed, I was so disheartened, and remain so. How can anyone say that any of this is “good for democracy”? It’s one thing to have a rational argument on differences in policy and, yes, experience. But innuendo, irrelevant personal attacks and mud slinging are truly deleterious. And you are right that 1) when all is said and done, the policy differences between HRC and BO are not that great and 2) the democrats are doing the Republicans work FOR them. I really wish Howard Dean would get on the ball (or, rather, have been on the ball from the beginning) and not created this MESS that is Florida and Michigan.

  3. Thanks for the link, Suzy.

    Unfortunately, I see this getting worse than better. In the Chicago Tribune today Obama’s camp said they are beginning an all out assault on Hillary Clinton on her “personal” ethics. Axelrod said it’s time to re-visit Whitewater. So, Kenny Starr spent millions of our tax dollars money and found nothing and Axelrod and Obama want to re-visit this? They realize that nothing new will be found, but what it will accomplish is flinging mud at Hillary and those young voters that Obama likes to court are too young to remember the details. My son who is a senior in high school said one of his friends who is an Obama supporter told him that Hillary Clinton was in jail for over 6 months because she refused to tell the truth about Bill Clinton. Of course, that’s not true and I think he must have been thinking of Susan McDougal who was in jail because she refused to lie under oath for Ken Starr in order to implicant Bill Clinton. Truth doesn’t matter, and these young people who will be eligible to vote in the next election aren’t going to try to check their information. They believe whatever Obama and his camp is saying and they spread this misinformation to their friends.

    This is why I am going to continue writing about Obama and Hillary. Someone has to get the real information out there and dispel the lies that Axelrod (Obama lets him do the dirty work), are spreading. Of course, I may lose Obama supporters who won’t want to read the truth on my blog, but I can’t help that. Just as I would never allow Bush to spread his lies, I’m going to continue in the same manner with this election.

    Of course, not all my blog posts are political, I change off from day to day, so those who want to avoid politics can still find something new or different.

    BTW, I just love the skull and crossbones with the pigtails. I should copy that and put it on my granddaughter’s bedroom door, she has pigtails just like that!

  4. But getting personal, getting racist, getting sexist, getting mean is a sign of lack of intelligence. The differences between Clinton and Obama are not so great that they justify the kind of hateful comments we’ve seen around the so-called progressive blogs.

    NO SHIT! I feel the same way, and I’m thinking we are in good company. I predict the Dems will self-destruct, and we’d better get used to saying President McCain without bursting into sobs.

  5. totally agree that is the way for most bloggers to go. Its utter bullshit. But does not surprize i have lost ‘blog friends” over this. People are so batshit insane about shillery that i cannot talk or chat with them till after this is over..and these are former allies so i thought – i thought they “got it” at least somewhat and they are provacative..dammit if they do not raise my blood pressure and so far have not taken the bait…I am glad and grateful for the die hards who will keep posting on this BS and keep it honest and give us time to vent..ie our pal Christopher..and others..but i hear you suzy loud and clear.

  6. “I’ve grown disgusted and bored with the fighting and nastiness going on between progressive bloggers who are supposed to be on the same side.”

    With due respect, isn’t that how Bush pacified congress into patriotically suspending the Constitution for the Iraq War. Shouldn’t we all feel empowered to speak out against immorality, regardless of labels?

  7. Progressive- I could easily say the same about Obama’s Rainbow People. In fact, the blogger you mentioned hasn’t commented here since I wrote the post comparing Obama to a Care Bear (Maybe it’s a coincidence, but on that same blog I was called a “racist” by one of his readers because I don’t like Obama).

    So, I’ll stick with my original plan. I’m going to continue to make fun of all of them because a Corporate Bitch is a Corporate Bitch, whether they have a vagina, brown skin, or marionette arms.

    The Democrats have a majority in both houses of Congress, and currently we have more troops in Iraq than in 2006, we are spending more in Iraq than in 2006, the economy is in worse shape than in 2006, they voted for this ridiculous “Stimulus Plan,”they voted to condemn Move.org (Which has about as much influence as this blog), they allowed Bush to circumvent FISA, in fact, they’ve allowed the Bush administration to pretty much do whatever it fucking wants, but now, NOW, I’m supposed to trust them, they really mean it this time. Pinkie Swear and everything.

    Fuck that, and Fuck Them!

    The Wingnuts have the power they do because the Democratic Party is just as complicit.

    Oh, they’ll keep abortion legal. Fuck, I’m a 38 year old man, what does Legalized Abortion have to do with my daily life?

    Jack Shit.

    If the Democrats really care about “Women’s Rights,” how about working on issues that deal with poverty, income inequality, and our antagonistic version of capitalism?

    Those issues just don’t resonate in the polls. They’re not galvanizing enough.

    Put aside the abortion issue, and the limp stance most “Liberals” take when it comes to Gay Marriage, and there is no difference between the Donkeys and the Phants.

    None.

    Obama and/or Hillary are not ending the war in Iraq next year, or the year after that or in 2011, or 2012.

    We are there to stay for a long time. We can’t go into another country, completely fuck it up, and then bail. Viet Nam had an established government. Iraq is a fucking nightmare that’s in the middle of a “Surge Protected” Civil War.

    If the Democrats wanted to end the war, they should have ended it before it began, but as they’ve demonstrated on numerous occasions, they have NO BALLS!!!

  8. Well said Fairlane, I think we’re all getting a little too preoccupied with blog-politics.

    Why should I give a fuck what any other blogger thinks about me or my views? Is not the point of blogging to have a forum where we can sound off about our views? In the physical world, politics and religion are seen as so taboo that we can’t even talk about them, for fear of losing friends. Let’s not replicate that in the blogosphere.

    I support Obama at the moment, not because I prefer him, but because I’ve deemed him to be the least corrupt of the candidates still left standing. Until he falls, I will continue to be open about where I stand, and I will unapologetically write about the conspicuous flaws of McCain and Hillary. And I will not take personally anything that any of you say in retort, nor remove you from my blogroll.

    It’s probably a feax pau among bloggers to state this, but I’m going for it: blogging will not make you famous. So stop playing politics, give up the balancing act where we all prance around delicately to avoid stepping on each other’s egos. The political party system is a total sham, set up to crush the true dissenters like Nader or Kucinich, to make sure they’ll never get party support and thus never end up in any position where they can do real damage to the status quo.

    We owe nothing to the Democratic party. So say what you feel and mean about Obama and Clinton, they’ll get over it.

  9. Very good post, Suzi. Good comments from everyone too. I had this really weird thought yesterday when I saw the pictures of McCain in Iraq: Why not let him be the next President? It would keep critical focus on the White House which is exactly where it belongs. Things are so fucked up at this point why not let the jerks OWN IT?
    We all know what Rush Limpbough and all the rest are going to do to Clinton or Obama if one of them does win and I agree that’s looking less likely with them tearing each other to shreds. I overheard an idiot the other day saying, ‘and then we’ll have male cheerleaders’ How can somebody be so stupid they don’t even know cheerleading was the only ‘sport’ Chimpy participated in at Yale?
    I still think the Democratic Congress and Senate would be better than the other and then maybe MAYBE they’d get a bit of backbone and start investigating. Then again, maybe it was a dumb thought and I don’t have a clue about what would be best right now.

  10. DBD: I don’t know if we’ll see a party exodus. I do think some people will stay away from the polls if their favorite candidate does not win the primary, which will just help the Republicans.

    Anita: Yeah, I think that the Republican strategists are just better at this game than the Dems. But that’s a different post.

    ME: I’m glad that you’ll continue to post about it and I think your reasons are excellent. I admit that I just don’t have the energy to devote to something that is about name-calling and mud slinging, but I’m grateful that you and others will be battling against misinformation.

    Scarlet: Sobbing, tearing of garments, wailing. That or I’ll just become catatonic and pretend I’m in the happy place, wherever the fuck that is.

    Progressive: You’ve made some great points in your comments at Jonestown and I also like what I’ve read on your blog. I like your stuff and I certainly don’t mean to offend you. But sorry, I call it as I see it and I just don’t think you understand what I am getting at. You’re calling Sen. Clinton “Shillary” and saying that her “batshit insane” supporters are your “former allies.” Like fairlane said, Obama supporters have been just as passionate and some things I’ve seen and read from them I might classify as “insane.” At this point I do not favor one Dem candidate over the other. If you do, that’s fine. But talk about THE ISSUES. As fairlane said, the blogger you mention has not really been doing that.

    MFV: I don’t agree with your comparison. I’m talking about not wanting to engage in what I think is ephemera and nonsense. I will happily discuss the candidate’s positions on issues and voting records. But I’ve done all of that. I have a list of things I like and dislike about each candidate and each item is issues and policy based. For me, I have nothing else to say about either candidate. If one of them does something or says something that has a substantive impact on my understanding of their positions and policies, then I would probably post about that. But I don’t want to post about the election anymore. It has become entertainment and there is very little substance to the entire thing. It’s not about complacency. To my knowledge, neither Clinton or Obama have clearly stated that they will call for an immediate withdrawal of troop from Iraq. Both voted to reauthorize the Patriot Act, although Obama had previously said that he would repeal it. Both of them talk out of both sides of their mouth, just like most politicians. But unlike several Republican candidates, neither has stated that they support rewriting the Constitution to reflect Christian values. Neither has indicated that they would go to war with Iran. Neither has said that they would expand the civil rights violations perpetrated by BushCo. If they do any of those things or anything like them, I will not only be posting about it, I will be protesting about it. I’ve got dissident street cred. I’ll fight anybody, anywhere about issues. But I’m not going to waste my energy on childish mudslinging superficial bullshit.

    fairlane: Fuck yeah, man. To all of that.

    MFV: I agree with what you’re saying in your second comment here. I can see how you might think that what I’ve said contradicts that. I don’t really give a fuck if people want to vent. That’s what blogging is about, in my opinion. I just don’t want to engage in this particular subject or style of venting. I don’t think it’s a faux pas to say to any bloggers who hang around Jonestown that we won’t get famous blogging. I don’t favor prancing or censorship. But just because somebody has something to say doesn’t mean it’s worth saying. But that’s their business.

  11. Oh you are so right Suzi. I am so over it. And I got into this a long time ago and was also denigrated not only for being a woman and white, but for my (gasp!) 50 years of old and sorry life. Like WTF would I know?

    I like you would like to discuss different opinions, but I sense a great deal of shutting down in this corner of the blogosphere and it goes beyond the political. It makes me sad. And frustrated.

    Great post- as usual! Thanks.

  12. Excellent follow-up, Emperor.

    Saying what you want about a candidate and deliberately ripping them to shreds based in stupid bullshit are two different things. I’d like to say what I want about Obama and Clinton and have a frank discussion without fear of being called racist or female traitor or whatever I might be called were I to attempt a civilized discussion about the ISSUES.

  13. SuziRiot:

    You and me both as I think my last few entries have shown. The whole thing is so screwed-up that my only equity as a voter would be to vote for Cynthia McKinney if she’s the Green Party nominee for President.

    None of the big three represent my interests exactly. Clinton maybe slightly more so than Obama. McCain is just crazy and must be stopped.

    But I still believe — and much more so now having joined the daily fray at RawDawgBuffalo — that the best work and the most original voices are coming from this corner and it’s not even close.

    To that end, I offer myself to the Jonestown Super Team in whatever capacity you’ll have me. I’ll post on any topic you like. And I’m happy to be a benchwarmer as well. No provisos, no caveats.

  14. Hello, Ms Riot.
    A right dandy post you’ve got there.
    I’ve never taken the position of backing any candidate in a serious sense, although I’ve taken the position of backing any three of them in a less-than-serious sense.

    This election was never about issues in the first place or we would have heard more about the minor candidates. Frankly, it’s the Hillary coronation gone awry, for better or for worse.
    Just as well. I was sick of hearing about it anyway.

    Personal sob story:
    To get this– and I mean, really get this– you should know that I was once mistaken as a woman by Lynn, the proprietess of the feminist ZelleBlog. And this after we had discussed feminist issues on about four different threads. You can find the thread where she found out I was a man at the Invisible Woman’s archive.
    So I’m at Daily Kos the other night. Some front pager comments:
    Reproductive rights, for example, continue to be under practically daily assault. Without these, women’s other rights can never be fully realized.
    And I’m telling him that the focus on abortion is detracting from what could be a broad front of support for other issues, like equal pay for equal work.
    Of course, I get flamed, called a troll, etc. Nasty stuff.
    Although they seemed to like it when I referred to NOW as the National Organization for White Women (NOWW).

    I wish I could have laid it out like Fairlane here:
    If the Democrats really care about “Women’s Rights,” how about working on issues that deal with poverty, income inequality, and our antagonistic version of capitalism?
    but I don’t excel at that rapid-fire type of comment response. I think about things too much.
    So here’s a little bowl for all my crocodile tears:
    (___)

    Anyway…

    Where you and I differ is really in the focus. You see the issues as important, I see the reasoning behind the issues as more important.
    What is the role of government under an Obama administration? A Clinton administration? A McCain administration?
    What of monetary policy? That neo-Keynesian crap hasn’t been helping us out a whole lot.

    I don’t trust any particular stance on an issue. I want to see what the issue is standing on.

    That is to say, I’m a bit more up Sh!t Creek than you are in this thing.
    So, here’s another bowl for my second round of crocodile tears:
    (___)

    Thank you for your support.

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